199: Dr. Robin Owens | Leading with Purpose
The overarching theme is helping people bring out the best of who they are. It starts with their purpose, but now if you take someone who's written a book, they have something that they're clearly passionate about. They have some ability around it and some values, whatever the topic of the book is. So now I get to help them express themselves even further. They have the book, and now they can put it out into the world.
Robin:But like me, emotions may get in the way. It may get in the way of helping them move forward, and that's one aspect of it. And they might not know because maybe they weren't teaching for a day like me. I'm like, how much of this do I use? How do I put it in a way that really makes change?
Robin:So for me, I can help them pull out the best, turn it into a course so then they can reach more people, have more impact, make a difference and even more income. And so it's my way of making a difference, which is something that really matters to me.
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Robin:Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick. And today, I am here with the delightful Robin Owens, PhD. Robin is the founder of Masterful Course Creations. She's also a speaker, author, and college professor.
Robin:Outside of the college classroom, Robin helps coaches, consultants, and trainers turn their books into masterful courses. She is the host of the popular podcast, Leadership Purpose with Doctor. Brabith, on which I have been a guest, I'm pleased to say. And she's also the author of the upcoming book, purpose based decisions, an inspirational guide to more meaning and purpose. When she's not working, she's walking in the park, which I love, laughing with friends, or delighting over the fact that she's convinced her nieces and nephews that she's the cool aunt.
Robin:I relate to that. So welcome, doctor Robin. We're glad to have you here today.
Robin:Thank you, Devina. It's a joy to be here and to have a conversation with you again.
Robin:I enjoyed our first one so much. So I had to have you on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I think our listeners, women law firm owners are really gonna benefit from this because we're gonna be talking about not only how you can create courses, which I think are interesting, but really talking about leadership and purpose based leadership and what that means. And I think that's gonna be a really powerful discussion. So let's jump in and get started.
Robin:Why don't you start out by just kinda giving me I've read this your wonderful bio, but give us an idea of what led you to do what it is that you do today.
Robin:Yes. And you're right. At the heart of who I am really is this person who is constantly seeking meaning and purpose and who has found it and wants to maintain it. And so in my heart, I wanna help other people do that. And that starts from way back, like most of our stories start way back.
Robin:Right? And for me, as a high school student, I remember by the time I was in high school, I had heard my mother say so many times, talk about her experience. When she was in high school, she was a valedictorian of a high school class, and she wanted to go to college and become a teacher. That was her dream. But they had, like, those 13 siblings.
Robin:And her parents said, we can't send you all to college. So we'll send the oldest boy because he's a boy and because she wanted to go when she was next. But Oh. When we'll get married, have to take care of her family, the girls will get married, your husband will take care of you. That was the thinking of the time, at least for her
Robin:Right.
Robin:Performance. So she didn't she never had a chance to go to college. So she ended up working in a factory for thirty five years and hating it.
Robin:Wow.
Robin:There's nothing wrong with working in a factory. But if you hate it and it's the opposite of your dream of being a teacher, you could imagine the toil that had. So my high school self could see at that point the impact that it was having on her physical health, her mental health. And so I made a declaration. I said, when I grow up, if I have a chance, I'm always gonna do work that's meaningful and purposeful to me.
Robin:I love that story because it's a discussion I'm often having is what the impact of our parents and our upbringing has on our choices. Because first of all, whatever they don't like about their life, they're gonna make sure and teach us to do the opposite. So that always happens. But also just the exposure. And I imagine that your mother was somebody who really valued education.
Robin:And so it probably explains why you're so highly educated because she taught you the value of that. So I love a lot about that story. We're gonna get into purpose based leadership, but talk to me about what purpose means to you. Like, what is the word? I think sometimes that we think everybody sort of knows the meaning of certain words, but we start discussing somebody, particularly somebody who's kind of an expert in this.
Robin:What does word purpose mean mean?
Robin:Yeah. I love that question, Devina. And you're right because we use words that are commonly we think are commonly known. So I'll tell you my perspective on purpose. Purpose is let me tell you what I think it's not, and then I'll say what I think it is.
Robin:Okay.
Robin:It's not this one time thing or occurrence that happens in one way once in your life. So that's what it's not. And it's not well, not necessarily, it doesn't have to be this big monumental thing. Like, I have to find a cure for cancer. So that's it's not.
Robin:What purpose is for me is once you are expressing who you truly are, you're in your purpose. Now I know that sounds abstract, so I'm gonna break it down. But it's really expressing that we are creative beings and we are created to express ourselves, who we really are. And it's like, oh, what does that mean? It means once you're expressing the parts of you that tap into the things you love, the things that matter to you, the things that come naturally to you.
Robin:When you express a combination of those in service to someone or something beyond yourself, now you're in your purpose.
Robin:Right.
Robin:Over your lifetime or within a season, you can express it in different ways. But for me, that's what purpose is.
Robin:And how does that differ? So I know a lot of people say follow your passion. And I don't always believe that that's the best advice to give somebody because sometimes things you're passionate about may not take you where you think you want to go in life. And so how is purpose different from passion in the way of leading a life?
Robin:I love that. Passion is only a portion. It's only one indicator of your purpose. There's four indicators, passions, values, natural abilities, all three of those in service.
Robin:Oh, wow.
Robin:There could be lots of things that you're passionate about, but they might not be aligned with your values necessarily, could be, could not be as important to you as, you know, it could be. So all of them. And if it's something that you're just struggling against and you don't have the natural ability to do it, you're struggling against yourself. You're not being who you truly are.
Robin:Right. Right. Right. I mean, am very passionate about music and I always thought, oh, you don't have a musical career, but then I've never studied music. I'm not a singer.
Robin:I'm not a musician. Like, I don't have the skills to do that. And oftentimes we see people sort of get thrown into these. Well, this is my passion to do this or do that, but that's not their strength. Like, that's not the part that is strong.
Robin:It doesn't mean that people can't incorporate that in their life, but do you make it your career, what your livelihood depends on it and that kind of thing. I love the way that you've broken that down into these four elements. And you know, I think oftentimes when we're trying to live our purpose, we're trying to discover what that is, right? And oftentimes I think people think, well, I'm gonna go with what I'm passionate about. That must be my purpose.
Robin:But it may be. But what you're saying is we need to dig a little deeper and we need to look at all the elements of it. And so we need to look at our values. How do we figure out our values? Can you give us a little clue into how we determine what our core values are?
Robin:Yeah, I have a whole teaching and training on this. But yeah, here's one way to think about what matters to you. I'll give everybody listening just a short exercise. It takes some self reflection. So it's almost kind of not doing a service to say it in a moment like this, but let's just try it for the sake of our conversation today.
Robin:Here's an example. Think about if you had just six hours time uninterrupted. Everybody's taken care of, the family, the job, anybody who would want you or need you for any reason, nobody needs you. You have six hours uninterrupted. You can do whatever you want.
Robin:What would you do with that time? And just kind of think about it. Take some time. Reflect. Write it out.
Robin:Just draw the whole scenario. Just imagine it. And that's gonna take some time. And once when you look at it, you see the things that come out of it, they're indicators of those things that matter to you. That's just one indicator that what you would do with your time if you had nothing else to do and no one else did.
Robin:I think it's something you have to think deeply about because if you take that in a context of, you know, you've only got ten hours left to live or twenty four hours left to live, what would you do that really sharpens what's most important to you?
Robin:Yeah. Yeah. In that case too, you might do some things that you hadn't done connected to family or friends or loved ones. Yeah. So either way, it takes some deep reflection like what you do at your time.
Robin:So that's one of the ways to get at your values. Just use one other example because there's a few of them. You have to use them together. If you knew that, okay, everything in the house got destroyed by fire, but there were some things left over. Nobody was hurt.
Robin:And you can pick three things to take out to survive this imaginary situation. No plants, harm, no pets, no people, but three things. And you can take out the three things. What would they do? And just kind of think through that.
Robin:Write it down. It's another indicator. Now it's not necessarily so let's just say a person says, well, I'll take my laptop computer. It doesn't mean that your laptop computer is one of your values. It represents something for you.
Robin:Then you look at the next level. What does this represent? And it could represent different things for different people. So when I said to you, you know, this is like a deep reflection, but that'll get people started thinking on it though, for sure.
Robin:Yeah. Think the first thing people might think of is their phone. But what the phone represents to me is communication with others, connection with others. Right? Whereas a phone might represent something else to somebody else, you know?
Robin:So very interesting.
Robin:So in that case, one of your values may be connection with others. Communication and connection with others. That really matters to you.
Robin:When I often will tell people, I'll say, because we do core values, you know, work and working with women lawyers as they're growing their business. And I'll say, what pisses you off? What makes you mad? Because that also is an indication to me. And the thought of using anger to help you sort of figure something out seems a little counterintuitive.
Robin:But from my experience, I can identify my core values pretty quickly by thinking about what really makes me feel upset is counter to a value that I have, you know? So I found that to be kind of an interesting way to get there as well. That's why exercises like that are so important because we don't know. We will operate on for our core values all the time. And it's why we attract the people we do, why we function in the way that we do in the world.
Robin:And yet often we don't take the time to sit and think about it. So that's why, you know, in talking about purpose and talking about these elements, I really want people to be able to take away from this and maybe do a little thought work and think about how do I get to my purpose. Because purpose is a much bigger thing than just like I mentioned passion. You know, this idea, well, I feel passionate about helping others. Is it your purpose to help others?
Robin:And then you're digging into each of these elements that you're talking about to find an answer. But let's shift a little bit and talk about specifically purpose based leadership and what that means and how our purpose shows up in leading.
Robin:Yes. For me, it incorporates those principles that we just talked about. Those four principles for purpose. When you're leading, let me just back up and say, from the time I made that declaration in high school, you know, I quickly forgot it by the time I went to college and started working. So I kind of, in my first position, touched on my purpose and then lost it and took twenty something years to find it.
Robin:So I was on this quest from one position to another, several years at this place, several years at that place. And so at the end of the twenty years or so, I finally figured it out. And so this is where those four principles come from. And so then the academic in me now created a system.
Robin:Right.
Robin:To always stay in alignment with your purpose, which this is really gonna answer your question. It's just the long way around. I created this system, what I call the purpose based decision making system. How do you use those four principles and to stay in alignment all the time? So now to your question about purpose based leadership, it's your leadership.
Robin:And by the way, leadership to me is not just the title of authority. It's how you influence other people. We all have influence over people.
Robin:Right.
Robin:One way or another. Alright. So purpose based leadership is you express your leadership always in alignment with your purpose. And it's those four things, your passions, your values, natural abilities, in service to others, guided by that. Your decisions.
Robin:I mean, not decisions like what you're gonna have for lunch, but, you know, the
Robin:Yeah. The meaningful ones. Yeah.
Robin:The meaningful decisions in your life.
Robin:So this is interesting. I like that you backed up because we talked about kind of agreeing on a definition for purpose for this discussion and agreeing on a definition for leadership is important because so, you know, people ask about leadership experience and a lot of people think, well, I haven't managed a 150 people before. So am I really a leader? I haven't been the president of the club. Am I really a leader?
Robin:But one of the interesting things with social media, I think, is how many people have been able to step forward as thought leaders that never had that opportunity before because they didn't have the technology or the tools to reach masses of people. And now you see so many people who may not consider themselves leaders. They may not even call themselves a thought leader as, you know, marketers. We love to put names on things, but they're out there. They're they may call themselves an influencer.
Robin:But really what they're doing is they're leading movements around whatever it is that they are passionate about, that they have a strength in. Right? So if you have somebody who's an influencer on social, who's a fashion influencer on social media, Their passion is fashion. If they are really good at it, they're going to attract more followers to their viewpoint of fashion as art or fashion as, you know, a way of expressing yourself or whatever. So all of that comes together, that strength, that natural ability, that passion, and values, their values.
Robin:So what they value, you know, and some people may question that. Other people may look at that and go, you value fashion, but they say I value, you know, how we show up in the world or I value helping other people feel good about themselves. I value feeling good by expressing myself fully or whatever. And then in service of others is they're not just keeping it to themselves. They're putting it out there and being vulnerable to the world.
Robin:So I think that's a good sort of and you might not think fashion is that a thing, but to them that is. And I see a lot of them doing work in helping women feel more confident or men feel more confident or whatever. So when it comes to leadership, leadership can really be about you taking all of those values and putting them out into the world in service of others. And from your point of view.
Robin:Yes. You say your point of view, that's another way of my saying that said in the beginning of being who you really are
Robin:Mhmm.
Robin:And who your true self. In my opinion, how can we go wrong? We're always trying to strive for lots of people most of the time, much of the time, striving to be like other people, but it's going against who we are. And so those are just indicators. Are just indicators of what's happening inside.
Robin:And I love your example, the fashion influencer because maybe he or she values beauty. Right? And what you're talking about value is helping people feel confident. So everything is an expression or a representation of something else if you really think about it.
Robin:Right. Right. I wanna talk about it in terms of for women law firm owners because one of the things that I'm always working with my clients to do is because it's Wealthy Woman Lawyer. So we're definitely talking about how to create wealth with a law firm and all of that. But satisfaction in a career.
Robin:And we're seeing a lot of this now going on in the world where people are dissatisfied. Satisfaction in a career really doesn't come from how much money you make. And how much money you make is going to change based on your level of satisfaction. Right? So the level of satisfaction is really about understanding not only your core values, but also what your purpose is, what you're doing.
Robin:Because a lot of lawyers will get into the law and they'll get burned out quickly. Like I got burned out really quickly having my own firm when I first started my first firm. And it's because of they're not really in touch with the deeper meaning of their work and feeling like that they are making a difference in the world through their work. And I have one client who's a family law attorney and she really loves business like she's an entrepreneur and she's a really good lawyer. She said, am I passionate about divorce?
Robin:I'm not really passionate about divorce. You know, but she might be passionate about helping other people pick up the pieces after a split of a relationship. She's passionate about the work of being a lawyer. So she's not really passionate so much about, you know, people in relationships getting divorced, but she loves being in court and making arguments and winning. Right?
Robin:And as she's become more mature as an attorney, she's working at a higher and higher level. So now she's doing more appellate work. So her purpose, the way it's expressed, has changed over time. And her viewpoint on the world is unique in how she shows up. And so how she leads is different as a result of who she is.
Robin:Yes. Am I right or am I wrong? Am I on the wrong track here?
Robin:You're absolutely on track. Absolutely right. That's the way I see it too. And that's a perfect example of it. You know?
Robin:Just you're a divorce lawyer, but that doesn't mean you have to do it in that way that you are expected or in the ways that work for other people. Do it in the ways that work for you. Yeah.
Robin:Yeah. Yeah. And there has to be something behind it that is meaningful. If you don't have the meaningful connection to it, it's not going to be as fulfilling. And it may be something else out there, maybe a different practice area, maybe leaving the law together, maybe there are all kinds of things.
Robin:And listening to your story and reflecting on my own situation, I think oftentimes when we're young, we think, you know, we don't really think in terms of our purpose, but we're always trying to find it. And it can be a lifelong quest. I mean, can be something. And in my case and your case, it sounds like it's something that evolves over time. Like we may have innate strengths, we may have certain things that we value, but values can change over time.
Robin:How we're gonna show up and serve, it can change. I mean, purpose can change, right?
Robin:At the core of it, it really is who you are. Right? It's still using all those aspects of who you are. How you express it changes. Use different values at different times.
Robin:Use different natural abilities at different times or in different ways. Let's say communication. Right? It's a passion. Speaking is oral communication.
Robin:Speaking is a passion, which happens to be one of mine. But then I realized I don't wanna be called on to speak about anything because people would call on me, oh, Robin, you like to speak? Come speak and say this. But that's not in alignment with something that really matters to me. So now speaking is no longer passionate when it's about your values and not mine.
Robin:Right. Right. Right. Speaking is the way of serving. But for you, it's not about speaking itself.
Robin:That's a way of serving. It's about what you're speaking about that matters to you and the manner in which you're doing it. Yes. Right? So it goes even beyond what.
Robin:It's also how you show up. So for instance, I love a good conversation. Swy podcast. I can I speak in front of a group? Yes.
Robin:Have I? Yes. But to go and speak at a large conference doesn't ring my bell. So I don't pursue that path or those opportunities. I'd rather speak in a one on one conversation with somebody and let other people listen into it and choosing the topic and all of that.
Robin:Right? So because I'm an introverted person, I like those deep meaningful conversations. And my way of showing up as a speaker is to let others observe and listen in on the conversation. Right? So small groups, whereas I'm in front of a large audience that doesn't have that connection that I value in the same way.
Robin:Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. That's exactly it.
Robin:And so then because you're doing it your way, the way that expresses who you are, it's more meaningful. And when it's meaningful, you have fulfillment.
Robin:Definitely. Definitely. Building a business, there are definitely things that you're gonna have to do that you don't love. But in anything that you're doing when you're trying to do any sort of project, right, getting an education or whatever is gonna be these things. But I do think that the more time you could spend working in your purpose, the more fulfilled you'll be.
Robin:And it really is the secret to loving your work is knowing that it is furthering a purpose that you have in your heart. Right? I
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Davina:And now back to our show.
Robin:And I'll add to the we've been talking about passion. I'll add to the natural abilities portion of the principles. And again, takes some reflection on those things that come naturally to us. I don't know if for you, if communication comes naturally, but we can get at things that come are sort of easy for us, but hard for other people. Now for people, you're saying, oh, I enjoy this.
Robin:I host a podcast. I heard somebody say the other day, she would be terrified to host a podcast. She told me just the sight of those big microphones intimidate her. It never occurred to me that that would be the case because like you, it's something I enjoy and it comes naturally and easily to do.
Robin:Right. Right. Right.
Robin:So this idea of also those things using your natural abilities, not just your passions and values, but those things that are kinda easy for you and they energize you may be hard or just for other people, they just don't have the tolerance for it, but it's just a joy and easy for you. And you probably know this work, Gay Hendrix and the zone of genius. You know this?
Robin:Right. Yeah.
Robin:For those maybe who've not heard it, social psychologist turned entrepreneur, Gay Hendrix wrote this book years ago and called the big leap. And it's just one of the things in the big leap that he talks about that people have kind of been captivated by and I have been to this notion of doing work in your zone of genius. It's he's saying when I say follow your natural abilities, by doing those things that come easily, make sure the majority of your work in time, you have the opportunity to what I call use your natural abilities, what he calls operating. Right. Do the activities.
Robin:There are several activities in your zone of genius, but focus most of your time on that. I think it gets overlooked. In addition to the passion, in addition to things that matter to you, in addition to service, I'm adding those things on to what he said.
Robin:Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So communication is definitely a proactive communication is my core values. If somebody communicates with me with enough time that I can solve a problem, I'm going to be much happier than if they communicate with me after the fact.
Robin:So I'm a proactive communicator. It's how I work with my clients. It's how they work, you know, how I serve them. And anybody who works for me, that's an expectation of them. So it's a core value.
Robin:It's my core value, but it's also my business core value because I believe my business. Right? But from a communication standpoint, I'm a trained communicator as well as it being a natural ability. But it was a natural ability that I followed that led to the training. So it was my writing skills that led me to pursue and my curiosity and my love of asking questions led me to get a journalism degree.
Robin:So it is a thread that I say is run throughout my career. It was very journalism is very different experience. I got into marketing with a journalism degree because there weren't the options that I perceived I could be available to me for journalism. So I got into marketing, which is also a form of communicating and eventually wound up working with an agency. And then I went to law school and became a lawyer.
Robin:Again, one of the things where you're trained, you're a trained orator. I mean, that's what you're trained to do is to speak and persuade and argue and all of those kinds of things. So communication is the thread that runs. That's another way you could sort of look at your life and say, even if they look very different, what is the thread that runs route? And I always say for me, writing is something that has run throughout my career, but it's communication in general as well.
Robin:Like my desire to learn and then share with others. So it's a very specific type of communication. It's it's about intellectual stimulation, learning, sharing with others, having others share with me, more learning, more sharing. So it's that sort of cycle for the very specific thing. And it's also limited, I think, to certain topics.
Robin:Right? Because learning math and sharing math does not thrill me the same way. I do share I do learn about math and I do share about math in terms of running a business and business math, but it's a very specific kind of thing. So I think it's even more nuanced than people realize. I mean, don't you find that in doing work with your students?
Robin:Absolutely. So in that case that you just mentioned. So math, let's say, doesn't fall on your passion list. You can be good at it, but you're just not passionate about it. Right?
Robin:I was traumatized in probably about middle school, high school when they started throwing letters in with the numbers. That was when the trauma started. I was a top math student at ten years old.
Robin:Oh, they ruined it with the letters.
Robin:They did. They did. So
Robin:Yes. Yes. And so I agree with you too about the themes throughout your life because that's kinda what people from their early years up into now, you know, high school, college, and beyond to try to track and find those common themes that come across your life and that may be expressed in different ways like you just beautifully illustrated through your own life about communication and curiosity and how all those things had different expressions. So as a journalist, it was there just expressed in this particular way. And now as a owner of a business expressed in a slightly different way.
Robin:Still there. Right. It's a part of who you are. And everything you do that is meaningful and fulfilling, probably look and say there's a part of it in there.
Robin:Yeah. And the service of others piece I think find is interesting is that for me, it's not enough for me to learn something. I have to talk about it with other people and share it, put it out. There's why, you know, like when I struggle to grow my business and then I figure it out what I was doing, then I have to turn around and teach people about it. Like, don't make these mistakes.
Robin:So there's something that drives me to be a warning to people. And so I think it's interesting and how that shows up in leadership then. I wonder as leaders, so like women law firm owners are hiring people to work for them. And they go, well, what if they don't share my passion? Right?
Robin:My purpose? Or what if they just want a job? And then how to I think it's the goal of the leader to be the visionary and to attract and inspire. So attracting people who share a vision, who can come to share a vision or and then inspire them, show them what it is that makes it so meaningful to you. And there will be some people who will never be a good fit in your organization.
Robin:Because no matter how much you say this is an important thing that we're doing here and I'm passionate about it. If they're passionate about something else, if that's not their purpose and they're on a different path. And so that might help people to understand a lot of lawyers are experiencing employees coming and going right now. Coming and going. They'll work, they'll leave within a few months and then they're like, oh my god, I'm having to start over.
Robin:I'm having to train. And I think there's a big movement in the world right now for people sort of trying to find meaningful and purposeful work. And I think people are misunderstanding that if I'm not getting to spend every minute of my day the way I wanna spend every minute of my day, then this job isn't gonna work for me. Right? What are you seeing when you kind of observe?
Robin:Yes. To build on that, if the business owner gets the new person to get a clearer understanding of, like, what you said, the vision and the mission. Right? And so early on, even in the interview process, if the values are not in alignment, it's not a good match because that's what's gonna keep the person going in the hard times when you have to do the mundane tasks that aren't really connected to the real passionate parts of the job. Right?
Robin:To keep going with the other it's like I'm working toward this bigger mission. So the aligned values will help them move into the mission. Now let me use a more generic example. I'll take it from the university. I also teach a university, and that's what drew me to the university.
Robin:I mean, lots of organizations, they say, put they their mission statement on the website, and this is what we stand for. However, this university really integrates the mission throughout everything it does and talks about it all the time. And they talk about, and this is part of it, we are developing women leaders. Somehow you already have me. And we encourage them to not only lead for themselves, but to participate in service to others.
Robin:So that's already aligned with my own values.
Robin:So Right.
Robin:And that's spoken about all the time in different ways. For example, if they're doing a particular event, this is why we're doing it. If it's a part of the curriculum, this is a part of our mission to do X, Y, and Z. So it's always integrated. So I found it's very interesting to me as a large organization, the faculty and the staff, they hire them in a way that they've all kind of bought into this mission so they can do the work in a way that works well, even in the times when you don't get to do the daily things that really ignite your passion all the time.
Robin:And so I try to model it in my own business, try to attract people who are like me and value people living in their purpose.
Robin:Right. Right. Right.
Robin:We know this is what we're working toward even in the days that we don't have opportunities to flow in passion all the time.
Robin:Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important for us to put this out there for the women law firm owners who are trying to cultivate that kind of in their team is if you have somebody comes along who's a staff person and you're hiring them, they may not have ever worked in your practice area and they may not be passionate about your practice area. It may not feel like their purpose or whatever. But I have a client who has set up a law firm business where all of her employees work locally remote.
Robin:So they all work in their homes. It's a great fit for women attorneys who are mothers of young children or men attorneys. Her mother, she just hasn't had any yet. Men attorneys who are who are mothers of young children who want to be more available to their children because the business model that she set up allows them to work from home, but they're also not working twelve hour days from home. They have a little bit of flexibility in their schedule as long as they're proactively communicating.
Robin:So the value for a lot of people who come and work with her is this value of work life balance. The value doesn't have to be about helping people through divorce, which is a family law attorney. It can be about the value of I wanna create a business that causes people to have both their career and be a good parent and or not even parenthood, but just taking care of themselves. Right? So this is a huge core value for her, and she holds everything and measures it up against that core value, and she does it instinctively.
Robin:She's not doing it because she sat down and thought to herself, and she's also naturally an influencer. So she's a naturally gifted influencer, which makes her really a great connector and leader and all of that. And that's very important to her. That's her like, when you take the CliftonStrengths analysis, like, all first six on the list are all influencer for her. So I've never seen anybody so you know, who have so many characteristics in there.
Robin:So it's very interesting. And I think people need to think when they're talking about putting together a team, you may think to yourself, well, who's gonna be passionate about my practice area? Who's gonna be passionate about immigration or passionate about, you know, estate planning or whatever it is. And some people may be very passionate about it. You may have somebody come from your team who says, wanna work here because I saw what my family went through when we didn't have estate planning.
Robin:And so I wanna make sure nobody else has that experience again. That may be a driving, but your purpose may also be something else. It may be this business is a vehicle for me to show people that this can be done. A business can run this way. It can be.
Robin:So I know for me, that's a large part of my motivation is to show in particular women, but other people that you don't have to work as a traditional lawyer in a traditional law firm in a way that worked when it was men working and having wives at home to take care of everything. You can show up and be a lawyer in your own way. Yeah. Right? Just like you could show up and be a teacher in your own way.
Robin:Yes.
Robin:Right? Yes. And there are places where that's going to work at places where it's not gonna work and the importance is to find a place where it works, you know, for you. Right?
Robin:Yes.
Robin:Yeah. I know we're gonna run out of time soon, but before we do, I wanna get into what you do in terms of helping people take their books and turn them into courses because I think that's really interesting. So how did you kinda come to this idea?
Robin:Okay. Of course, I love the question. And so this came around year ten of my teaching as a tenured professor, but also probably around year three of my own business. And my business is and continues to be it now has two kind of pieces to it. Purpose is always underlying it from my mother's story, the whole thing.
Robin:Right? I learned how to do it. I'm following it. I'm in it. I'm building a business at that time, helping people find and sustain alignment with their purpose.
Robin:Right in the middle of that, I'm enjoying, one day just enjoying this piece of the work that I'm doing for the university. I had a book that my first book came out, and I proposed to the university that I use it as a textbook for one of the courses. It was approved. And I was like, great. And then I thought, oh, now I have to
Robin:create a course create a course.
Robin:For my own book. And I had been doing it for years with other people's books, you know, other textbooks. I'll just get a textbook and create a course. Right. But suddenly, because it was mine, all this emotional stuff came into play.
Robin:I kinda got stuck. I didn't know what to do. I felt nervous because now this is my words, my blood, my sweat, my tears, my all the stuff that would creating it. So I'm very vulnerable now. I have to put this, and I'm like, okay.
Robin:What's happening? It just freaked me out. So a couple weeks passed by, and I got ahold of myself because the deadline is coming soon where I have to submit, work through all the emotions, and said, wait a minute. You've done this before, and this is a model for just anything. We've done this before.
Robin:What did you do before, And what worked about it? And I just had to write it out and make a list. What were the steps? How do you do it to separate myself from the emotions? So I created the framework, followed it, created the course.
Robin:It was a success. Then I thought, oh, I'm in business. I wonder if I can help other people do what I just did with their books and see if it, you know, would be helpful. Yeah. Because I enjoyed so much.
Robin:And so I said, let me just try it. And then start the business right away, that aspect of the business. Let me just try it because sometimes I can get ahead of myself. So I was let me try with a few people and a few more and a few more. And then after about six months, I'm like, yes.
Robin:This is the thing. I figured it out. All the things that worked for me and that made me successful and I get these rave reviews for my courses all the time. I taught other faculty and all this kind of stuff. Put it together in a system and began to teach other people.
Robin:And I just all of that framework that I went through and figured out from what I had put together. So I put it in framework and I call it mastery. And, you know, of course, mastery is an acronym, but Right. Mastery is the framework. And so then I take that framework and teach people how to turn their books into now masterful courses.
Robin:A masterful because they have mastery embedded in them.
Robin:Right. I love it. I absolutely love it. That's fantastic. What are those four elements sort of ties together because you're the college professor, you're the person who has a business teaching people how to live their purpose, and then you've evolved now to this point where you're teaching people how to well, on the face of it to me, it looks like teaching.
Robin:They're teaching obviously is a big part. Very much like what you and I discussed when I said earlier, like it's not enough that I learned it. I have to go tell people. Right? So what is that value that runs through or that purpose that runs through for you for that?
Robin:You know, I enjoyed this question. It's the question from a person who is a deep thinker. I love the question. And for a long time, I thought they were separate this idea of teaching people purpose and then doing expressing this other part of really who I am. Right?
Robin:Even in that, the overarching theme is helping people bring out the best of who they are. It starts with their purpose. But now if you take someone who's written a book, they have something that they're clearly passionate about. They have some ability around it and some values, whatever the topic of the book is. So now I get to help them express themselves even further.
Robin:They have the book, and now they can put it out into the world. But like me, emotions may get in the way. It may get in the way of helping them move forward, and that's one aspect of it. And they might not know because maybe they weren't teaching for that day like me. I'm like, how much of this do I use?
Robin:How do I put it in a way that really makes change? So for me, I can help them pull out the best, turn it into a course so then they can reach more people, have more impact, make a difference, and even more income. And so it's my way of making a difference, which is something that really matters to me. What's mean to make a difference? So we take their book and now they're reaching all these people.
Robin:I feel like I'm reaching all those people through them. And so
Robin:that's ripple effect. It's that heavily upon ripple effect Yes. That I often think when I was first started my law practice, one of my very first clients was a couple who wanted to adopt a baby of a relative, but it turned out not to be a relative adoption because of how far apart they were in their relation. Right? And so it was a really challenging case for me because I was a brand new attorney and I had to figure it all out.
Robin:It's the only adoption case I ever did. And every year she sends me the mother sends me an email around Christmas and gives me an update on her child and her life. So I see directly that sort of connection and impact. And I think to myself how fortunate I am to be able to do that and positively affect somebody's life. And to me, that's a big purpose in my work now.
Robin:I look at it the same way. I may have people who walk away from the experience with me and they go, well, I don't know, you know, yeah, I did something, but I know the impact that that has on their life for years and years and years because there's a shift in who they are as a person and in their thinking. And I know because I've been on the receiving end of that where other people have shared with me and taught me and changed the way that I think. Yes. And that is a very powerful impact to have on the world.
Robin:And so I have all of these clients now going out. I've helped change the way they think. They didn't go out and change the views of others in the way that they think. And hopefully, there are enough of us out there, light workers, whomever, bringing light into the world, you know, that it will have a positive impact on the world. So I do see it as a much deeper thing, the kind of work you're doing, kind of work I'm doing, kind of work my clients are doing.
Robin:I often think that we don't look deeply enough. Like a lot of my clients, they're thinking, I've gotta get in and get this paperwork done. And my shift from thinking my value is in the amount of paper I created. When I learned that my value is not in the amount of paper I created or the amount of videos or the amount of whatever type of content creator. Right?
Robin:It's really in the message. It's really in the thinking and the you know? And so I've really enjoyed this discussion today. And I've enjoyed I know you went deep with me today. I went deep with you.
Robin:I was probably deeper than you were thinking.
Robin:I enjoyed it. Every moment of it.
Robin:Yeah. This is a conversation you and I could probably just have this conversation every week and probably go all kinds deep places.
Robin:Believe that. I believe that.
Robin:So tell me if people want to find out more about your mastery course and how to take a book that they've written and turn it into successful course. Tell me how they can get in touch with you to help with that.
Robin:Yes. They can get in touch with me on my website, which is createmasterfulcourses.com. Createmasterfulcourses.com.
Robin:Wonderful. We'll also share that link in the show notes so people can just go there and click on it and go right to you. And you have a website as well.
Robin:Yes. I have a general website that gives background about me and my history and some of the stuff you've heard today. And that's robinlowens.com. Robinlowens.com.
Robin:Wonderful. Thank you so much, Doctor. Robin. I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. I hope you have too.
Robin:I hope we can do it again soon.
Robin:I would love to. I love what you're doing and I'm just honored to have this opportunity to share this wonderful conversation with you. Thank you.
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