Automate Your Law Firm, Reclaim Your Time.
Hi, everyone. I'm Davina
Frederick, welcome to the
wealthy woman lawyer podcast. I
am the host and also the
founder, wealthy woman lawyer
where we help women law firm
owners scale their law firm
businesses to and through a
million dollars in gross revenue
so they can easily fund and have
time to enjoy the lifestyle of
their dreams. And I'm super
excited today because I have Sam
white here with me on the wealth
Memorial podcast, and he like me
absolutely loves to help
lawyers, scale their businesses,
and he's a real guru of
automation. So we're gonna pick
his brain today and have so much
fun. He's also the founder of
mulighed law. So he has a law
firm, as well that he he tested
all this out on before he
actually started. Legal
funnel.com So Sam, I'm super
excited to have you here.
Welcome.
Thank you. Thank you so much,
Davina. I'm super excited. I've
been looking for this for
months.
Now. Good. Good, good. Yeah. We
tried to start to get together
before Christmas. But we having
happening we it took us a little
while but battery here. Um, so
start out for those of you who
are who have not yet heard,
start out tell it tell us how
you became how you came to be a
lawyer to begin with? Was this
something that you always you
always asked? I'm always curious
with lawyers, you know, did we
start out with little kids
wanting to be lawyers? Because
we want some favorite TV show?
Or is it something that's passed
down to the family that father
did this mother did this? So I'm
going to do it? Or is it
somebody that came later in life
just by happenstance, so how was
it with you?
It For Me was actually I had a
more of an entrepreneurial
background. As a young kid, I
was started a bunch of small
businesses, I would sell jeans
online, I started a touring
company and just a bunch of
startups, which I didn't
realize, was kind of like that
gene of a true entrepreneur. And
then my law school journey just
kind of started because my
closest friends were going to
law school, like I have to go to
grad school. And I didn't like
Medical Associates just came
down to law or business. And I
chose ended up choosing law. And
then while I was in law school,
I started working. And I
realized, like, wait, the work
that I'm doing right now, I'm
not really enjoying this, I was
doing discovery, and target
stories and all that stuff. And
I'm like, I also don't have an
epiphany. I'm like, wait, I'm
necessarily want to be a
traditional lawyer like doing,
you know, doing legal, legal
paperwork. And then while I was
waiting for my bar exam results,
I started doing some soul
searching, but what do I really
want to do in life, until I met
one of my friends who started
his own law firm is when you're
heard of me, and the fact that
when I noticed that he No, he
would damage experience. And he
ended up starting his own law
firm, to kind of give me the
insight that I could tube. So
within six months of passing the
bar, I basically started my own
law firm, didn't know how to get
clients at all, didn't know
anything, I didn't have a
mentor. And I basically had to
self educate and teach myself
how to get clients how to how to
get started law firm. And fast
forward, that's been a really
fun journey, I've actually been
able to kind of figure out the
very practical ways to be able
to get it a law firm up, up and
running, generate clients
automated, to be able to serve
the clients get a lot of Google
reviews, and rinse, repeat, now
have seven virtual law firms
that are currently actively
running, all automated. And
because I'm kind of, you know,
those are running on their own,
that's where I kind of most of
my time now goes to legal
funnel, which is basically my
passion project, teaching other
lawyers, and showing that it is
completely possible to run a
completely virtual and automated
offer.
It's wonderful. That's what I
love that I love your journey.
And I really relate to it.
Because I've, of course, I've
been listening to a lot of
interviews with you and stuff in
preparation for this podcast.
And I said, you know, what
point, and you just mentioned it
now. Like, I think this happens
to a lot of us, like we have in
our mind, you know, we're gonna
be lawyers, and we get through
law school, and then we start
doing legal work. And the day in
and day out. Like, this isn't
what I thought I was signing up
for. And I know I'm certainly
the case of me, it was it was a
lot more stressful on a day to
day basis, because what I was
involved in litigation is very
adversarial. You're always feel
like you're constantly arguing
every day all day. And so when I
started my second firm, my
virtual firm, I really went with
a transactional model for that.
For that reason, because I was
like, this is just, this just
stinks. Well, one of the things
that I think you really mastered
that early on, which I wish I
had is that you've been able to
automate your model and you've
been able to build a team to
actually do the work. Right. So
talk to me about that a little
bit. What was that like? Because
I think a lot of lawyers are
reluctant to even hire other
attorneys to begin with. And for
you to go in and say I'm going
to set up this firm A Law Firm
and I'm going to my job is going
to be to set up these
businesses. And then I need
other people to keep them going.
How? How did you learn to sort
of let go of that and find those
people that you could trust that
you didn't feel like, I'm going
to have to carry my bar card if
they screw this up.
So running a law firm
encompasses a lot of a lot of
things. So signing up the
clients, be able to onboard the
clients, gather the information,
gather the documents. And then
if you if you write down
everything that needs to be done
from A to Z, you actually be
surprised that there isn't done
much legal work that really
needs to be done by an actual
attorney, a lot of the
preparations, the drafting the
gathering, the documents, any of
the clients, all that stuff
could be definitely handed off
to even non lawyers. So it's,
you know, people are kind of
used to the ways that they think
like the lawyer has to do this
draft, not necessarily, you
know, could really question it
and see whether you can get non
attorney is going to help you
drop those things, and then you
become and review it, and make
sure it's finalized and good for
your clients. And I know that
might annoy people be like,
wait, but I mean, lawyer has
been doing non legal work know
now that someone out suggesting,
but, you know, question the ways
that the way you're currently
doing and see if there's ways to
kind of work around it, and
still be able to serve your
clients in the most proper way?
How did you find that to be a
challenge? Or have you in the
last couple of years, we've had
the pandemic and we've had a
great resignation, we've had a
lot of people that have had had
to deal with the transition with
suddenly the lawyers on their
team or the paralegals on their
team are being recruited away.
They're being poached away? Have
you experienced that? Because I
know you've run a lot of your
businesses with virtual
assistants. And you really like
to work with freelancers, not
agencies, right. Have you had
any issues with having to, you
know, have good people doing the
work? And replacing them? And
that kind of thing?
Absolutely. Yeah. Across all the
law firms that we're currently
running, the number one problem
we have is people hiring good
enough people that can run the
manager or director, or the good
attorneys that can find to do
the legal work. So yes,
definitely, you know, there's
been major trends and a lot of
geopolitical and macro kind of
issues that kind of contributed
to that. But yes, that is a
theme, and is a trend, I don't
see it being fixed anytime soon,
or getting any better. So yes,
you have to think outside the
box and look into either
overseas people, freelancers,
people that can divide their
time in, you know, in many
different forms that can take on
this work for you, you know,
things are changing. Whatever
works, pass, one would
definitely won't work doesn't
need to in the future. So yes,
definitely losing a lot of
virtual people losing a lot of
freelancers, using a lot of
specialists. That's where it's
definitely heading. And it will
be more of a teacher.
Talk to me about using a lot of
specialists because I know for
me with just using my social
media as an example, I remember
at one point, trying to get
somebody to survey my social
media person, and loft on
multiple platforms. And I found
that to be it didn't really work
well. And so when I started
looking, okay, I found somebody
who just loves Instagram, and
she eats, sleeps and breathes
Instagram, I say, You're my
Instagram person, it completely
changed everything for Bing. And
so using that on different
social media has been helpful.
Tell me about your experience
with that. So I could see your
smiling, you've probably been
through the same thing.
Exactly. There's no such thing
these days. There's so much
going on in social media and
marketing, there's 1000
different ways to be successful.
No longer is it possible to have
one person knows what they're
doing across different things.
That's why it's so crucial, as
you've mentioned, to find the
top channels that will work for
you and just go hire an expert
just for that, as you mentioned,
an Instagram experts. And if
you're thinking even if you're
thinking I'm doing YouTube, and
I'm like, we're not trying to
work on my YouTube channel, I'm
looking to hire three different
experts when it comes to
YouTube, somebody who's a
creative designer for the
thumbnails 1% for the editor,
and then one person to manage,
you know, uploading and managing
this team. So it's three
different people when it comes
to even one. So that one,
really, I don't, so yeah, this
more specialized it is, the
higher the value of the person
goes up. And obviously the
better the result for you.
Right, right. And it's really
interesting, you say that three
people because I'm in my
podcast, I've recently changed
and I'm no longer using the
podcast team that I was using
before. And so now, while
between my husband and I, he's
my he's my tech guru. He's been
done technology, you know, since
since the 80s. Right? So he's,
he's wonderful at helping but I
certainly we can't do that we
have skills. We can't be doing
all this. We need those Simple
have a team and we're literally
assembling a team of somebody to
write the show down somebody to
edit the video is somebody that
like it and these are all
different people, um, but you
really get the best product when
you do that because I always say
to people, I was a cop I've been
a cop professional copywriter
for years. And because I was in
marketing before I became an
attorney, and copywriters, a
graphic designers are two very
different people. And we think
differently and we think to
ourselves, I'm just gonna hire
somebody to help me manage this,
you know, whatever. And
copywriter is a very different
skill from graphic designer,
which is very different from
somebody who actually is going
to be the organized person to
post and schedule things. Um,
and I don't know if you know,
Sandy van, if you followed Sandy
banner, obviously any van is a
master at she even started her
own company, they will support
help at she's want to open my
eyes to the idea of you know,
you don't need to hire one VA,
you can have 14 Va, right? We
live in ourselves. And I imagine
that's how you're doing a lot of
this stuff with your funnels is
that? Is that the case? That
you're? You're using a lot of
people more so than people
believe think we think?
Yeah, actually, how many of us
do you think I have? You know,
oh, gosh, ah, I don't know, 30?
Let's say 3088
is Wow, yeah, about about 5060
of them are pretty much full
time that they're not to have
one ongoing test that they're
doing all the time. And then
also have a good 20 to 30
they're sitting in my Skype
account. At any point, if I need
anything done, they've already
been on boarded. And you know,
they're clocked in, not clocked
in, but they're there as soon as
I can message them, they'll be
able to get anything done while
they're sitting my Skype
account. So yeah, ADB is, I
think the best way to think of
VAs is to think about there's,
you know, there's different
types of people, there's some
people that are writers, they're
good at writing. There's some
people who are good designers.
So they're a little bit more
creative. These are like
graphics, images, things like
that. There's people who are
good at talking. So those are
people that are usually going to
be talking to your clients to
closing, closing clients, things
like that. And there's some
people were kind of like more
macro visionaries, thinkers,
things like that to you.
Hopefully, you'll be, you know,
you're you're the law firm
owner, you'll be the visionary.
And then you have your writer
designers, talkers around you to
embrace specialized things.
Should we talk about vas?
Because I think that's super
valuable. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, go
ahead.
Well, I want to ask you this.
And, you know, feel free to
share your your tips and secrets
on that. There's a couple things
that come to my mind. One is,
how do you keep yourself from
being the bottleneck in the
pipeline? Because one of the
things that is the challenge of
working with virtual assistants,
no matter what kind of business
you have, is the quality of the
work and do they capture the
voice to the capture and style.
And you as a business owner, you
can be very quickly subbed into
the bottom because the bottom
that because you have to approve
and review and give input
everything for it goes out so to
hear what your insight is. And
then the other thing is, as I
think it's important to address
for attorneys, the role that
confidentiality an attorney
client privilege case, because I
know in the mind, the brains, a
lot of attorneys right now are
on fire screaming, as they're
listening to this because
they're going, oh my god, I can
never hire somebody from the
Philippines or whatever. It
isn't for me because of
confidentiality, and I don't
know them. And then who are they
all? All that kind of stuff. So
you could address those two
questions. I'd love to hear your
insight, your input?
Sure. So let's talk about, you
know, how do you how do you
what's the model behind your law
firm the way that I look at it
right now, the way that we're
operating our law firm is a
hybrid virtual law firm model.
That means you have in house
directors and managers or in
house or your law firm that you
have direct communication with.
And they're these directors
managers are running your
virtual operation. And pretty
much 95% of our, of our staff is
virtual, but but that one,
manager director is the one that
you are in contact with. And
there, that person is
essentially the bottleneck of
your law firm, or at least for
not me. So if the anything that
happens day to day to day, that
person's contacted. I'm not. So
I don't you know, I don't give
out my phone numbers. I don't I
did. My team doesn't really
email me. The only way that
people could communicate with me
is through slack. But at that
point, you know, when once I set
it up, hey, meet your manager,
media director, you know,
they'll be managing and web
instructions and I'm only, you
know, directly communicating
with the director manager. And
then I step away, you know, once
I hand off, I basically have the
tracking sheet right know what
the goal is, I check in, but I'm
not, you know, daily day, I'm
not dealing with that. And then,
you know, when I do communicate
with our team in Slack, I log
out and log back in once a day,
once every two days or so. I'm
not in, you know, people can
reach me that easily. And you
know, that's very systematic,
no, it made me feel like some
some new people that may join
your team, like, yo, where's the
founder, I will talk to him. And
since I joined three months ago,
and it's by design, and it is
like that, that's the way you
need to be. And the idea is that
the more you matter to your law
firm, the less your law firm is
worth getting them into, think
about that, the more that you
matter to your lab, the less
your law firm is worth, if
you're such a crucial part of
your own law firm, then you're
capped by how much you can grow
depends so much completely on
you. But when you take yourself
out of the equation as much as
you can, and instead is your
team, your operations, your
systems is what's keeping the
glue of your funnel, then, then
that's when your law firm can
grow beyond you. So that's one
and then the other thing we want
to talk about is the whole
confidentiality. I think that's
a major limiting belief that a
lot of people have, because it's
something new. And as soon as
something is new people have
started having FUD fear, you
know, fear, uncertainty and
doubt. So it's one of those, for
me, it's just very obvious that
it's a limiting belief. You'll
be okay. I think it's very
important to hire good people
from good countries, treat them
well give them respect, and
they'll know they'll return the
favor. So far not hired over 200
days, my time, terminated a lot
higher, a lot. Nothing has
happened. No negative thing has
happened and never been
sabotaged. And I think
ultimately just comes down to
just being a good person, treat
them well. give positive
feedback. And people would do
with that same respect back.
Right. Right. That's, that's
great advice. And I assume that
you had a, you have a process,
obviously, for everything. And
so I assume you have a process
for hiring, that you developed
along the way, as a result of
the hiring so many and sort of
learning from mistakes and
whatnot. Can you give us some
sort of tips and advice on on
your do's and don'ts when you're
when you're looking to hire,
whether they're whether they're
vert VAs from other countries?
Or they're just remote
employees, you know, in the
United States or whatever. What,
what advice would you have,
I actually have three secrets
some man just came up with just
last week after, you know,
awesome, perfect time. Secrets.
So the first one is hire VAs
like they're free, hire vas,
like they're free, a lot of
people get bogged down on the
costs, can afford it, they don't
have the cash flow, you know,
making any barely barely any
money. What I found out is you
gotta if you look at it in a
long term perspective, you hire
VA, after a year, you look at
how much it cost you and how
much time and money that person
made you buy you have, you know,
but then working for you, the
ROI is ridiculous. It's probably
one of the highest ROI thing
you've ever seen. And full time
you get up to you know, it
doesn't have to cost that much.
It might shock some people maybe
even $6,000 $8,000 for full time
VA, you know, if you're
currently the value is, you
know, 60k Plus, I actually just
analyzed yesterday, I've about
seven, eight full time views.
That all adds up to about 60k is
absurd. But it's working,
they're happy, by the way. I'm
happy, everyone's happy. So when
you look at the big picture, you
know, the ROI, just tired, like
they're free. And I promise you
the ROI is there crazily. Second
is always higher to VAs at a
time for anything. I call it the
rule of two's there's some
things in life that you have to
do two at a time, hopefully not
getting married two at a time,
but when hiring vas, I would
highly suggest tying it to V is
at a time there isn't is it
seems like to me that V is or
hit or miss completed her hit or
miss right now feels like 5050
for me. So in order for me to
protect myself against that is I
was hired to I give is very
similar tasks both to them. And
I I don't interview them by the
way, I don't interview a meet
people in zoom, I just give them
the task. They're in there. The
task that they do is my
interview. And I just look to
see who can do it faster. And
and then does it better for me.
If they're both good, great,
I'll keep both if not usually,
they have one that's much better
than this. The second one, I'll
keep the first one terminate the
bottom one and move forward with
that. And that way you know if
you hire one and that person is
not good than you then you have
to spend a week or two waiting
for the next one. That's close
you don't want that. So if
you're just hired to you know,
within a week or two, it's like
easy AP testing right your your
yeah marketing, it's like a be
testing your VA s and you'll
know exactly who's the best. The
third one is, the longer you
keep your VAs the higher the
value of the VA is goes up. So
try to keep your VA as as long
as possible and you bring them
on, you know, they're kind of
robotic, they just do what you
give them. But over time people
come up and you train them and
they get exposed more and more
to your law firm, then they
essentially came in run, like
you're running your law firm for
you have to have my law firms
are run being run by vas, any
customer support any issues,
anything that happens, the VA is
running through the VA. And
that's only because I've had
them for many years, I even
still actually have my first VA,
my first VA ever hired from six
years ago still with me. And
that VA if anything ever
happens, it runs through her,
she can address it called
clients, you know, pauses,
whatever, whatever that needs to
be done, does it so? So again,
just to recap, hire vas, like
they're free, hire two VAs at a
time, always up there. And then
try to keep your VA that's for
as long as possible.
Yeah, I think that's all
terrific advice. And I love to
hire two at one time, I've
actually been advising a lot of
my clients right now to hire
everybody, everybody they need
in their firm right now. I said,
just just put ads out everywhere
and just run them and continue
to run them even after you hire
people. Because we have so many
people who are making decisions,
they may interview for six jobs,
they wind up getting an offer,
they join yours. Two months
later, that job they really want
to call them and then they're
out. And so I'm telling people
just run ads always be
interviewing, and I like that
Quinn, Gary, Glen Ross movie
always be closing, I'm saying
always be interviewing, always
be interviewing, because. But I
think it's interesting that you
said you don't interview, you
just give them the task. And I
thought that was a great tip. I
because one of the things that
bogs, law firm owners down is in
interviewing, and what I have
done with a lot of mine is I've
referred them to someone who
actually handles that process
for them. You know, you don't
need to eat, we kind of think we
need to do the one interview, we
need to do that. And if you
don't yet have an HR person in
your firm, find somebody you can
outsource that to and get them
to interview and then they come
back and they go, here's your
shortlist A and B, pick those
and you're you just skip the
interview and go write A and B
which I think is great. How do
you transmit instruction to VA,
because one of the things that I
know a lot of law firm owners
say and I'm sure you've heard
this before is I could do it
myself much faster than I could
teach somebody to do this, how
am I gonna get the stuff out of
my head? I know, right? So I
bring it all the Greatest Hits
today for your inputs, I'm
sharing my pain with
you. Right. So this is something
that everybody knows that they
need to do, but a lot of who are
missing their standard operating
procedure. But you do it once,
you should, at least you've
created once. And then you add,
you know, you add to it over
time, but super crucial to
create that standard operating
procedure, that every time that
you teach anybody anything, and
it's to be a rule of thumb needs
to be recorded, and in speed,
you know, uploaded and linked
out in your sending operating
procedure for anybody who is
joining your law firm to go
through those standing operating
procedures. So the first few
days of joining my law firm
doesn't matter what you do for
my law firm always send to this
send operating procedure, I want
you to understand everything.
And once you download these
tools, I want you to join slack,
I want you to do this, then to
do that. And then by the time
they you know, the third day,
they pretty much know 80 90% of
exactly what they need to do.
And then, you know, whenever you
do train people just again, as I
mentioned, make sure to record
it and link out to it. So that
the next person, you don't have
to do the training again. It's
really fun. I don't haven't done
any trainings myself, because
everybody just goes through the
training. And then if my team
does the training day, no, I
didn't tell them anymore. That
was recorded, just put in there.
And now over time, you have this
amazing kind of how to run a
McDonald's restaurant, but for
your long run, anybody could
come in, that's better, you
don't need to talk to the
manager just to read this thing
you know exactly what to do.
Right? Right. Right. And what is
wonderful about video too,
because I also recommend that
is, in addition to videos you've
got, you can then transcribe,
you can turn them into
documents. So no matter who you
are, and you don't have to be
the one to do it, you can get a
VA to do that for a year to
coordinate your systems and
organize and whatnot. What's
beautiful about that, though, is
that no matter what learning
style somebody has, there's,
there's a tool for them to learn
right? So they can they can
learn you don't you're not
dealing with people with
different learning styles who
say well, I, you know, I can't
learn from video I have to learn
by reading it or whatever.
Right. Your I had some other
good questions for you today.
Because one of the things that I
want to talk about is what
works. What are there certain
types of firms that work better,
better with a virtual model? I
know you started out you know,
with a certain different types
and you sort of niche down and
now you've got like multiple
firms. So we're talking about
that. But also I know you've
helped a number of people now
with different types of law
firms and I'm sure one of the
questions they asked you is,
well, you know, yeah, that works
for, you know, business forums
online, but that's not gonna
work for my for my type of law
firm. Um, have you found that
there are some firms that are
better students kind of this
virtual model and some that
art? Yeah, I'm gonna share one
idea. Hopefully that will be a
label for a lot of you guys.
You're not the type of lawyer
that you are, you're actually a
problem solver. So just to give
an example, you're not a
personal injury lawyer, stop
saying personal injury law here.
You're not an estate planning
lawyer, and stuff like calling
yourself then stop putting down
your website, your funnels.
Instead, always address the
specific problem that you're
solving for your clients. You're
a problem solver. So your
content, your videos, your
funnels, your websites, go
talking to your clients language
of what specific problem you
solve. As soon as you switch
your language to that and you
make your language and you make
your funnels and you're upset
all about that, then you'll see
good results. Okay, so in value
your stuff is my website right
now saying, I do estate
planning, and I do I do
bankruptcy like that, you do
chapter 13 to avoid those legal
terms, nobody talks about those
things are what you do is, you
know, resolve people's that you
avoid, you know, declared the
bad things like that. So, you
know, that that's one thing that
I think a lot of both could,
could use. Second is yes,
there's definitely some
Pakistan's are better. My thing
is I go focus on the blue
oceans, I don't get into I
don't, you know, dive in into
the personal injury space. And
you know, there's been, it's
already a huge market super
saturated, a lot of money being
spent, I'd rather go find those
specific niches that nobody's
really tackling on. So the more
obscure it is usually the
better. So you know, don't be so
don't be so traditional, loyal,
do some research, talk around,
see what's out there. And
there's plenty of things out
there, you just don't know about
it, you'd have to do some
research, or talk to smart
people, maybe that could give
you some ideas. And the third
is, you know, be mindful of your
geographic location that you can
that you can serve. Ideally, you
shouldn't limit yourself to just
your city. Another aisle from
for most of us, you know, we are
kind of limited to our state.
But there's ways to maybe expand
to be a multi state Lawyer by
taking that up exam, that's
something Something might want
to look into. Or if you look
into federal claims, then then
that's like, amazing. At this
point, I'm at a point where any
federal claim, I could pretty
much guarantee you I could bring
you 100 clients within within
within two months, if as long as
the federal claim. So see, if
we, you know, be mindful of that
contract graphic thing. So just
to recap, you know, you're a
problem solver. So get away
from, you know, being a personal
injury lawyer. Second is look
for those blue oceans. And
third, be there just mentioned
that my mind is Be mindful of
your geographic location of who
you're serving. Right? Yeah,
exactly. And just want to also
put a little asterisk what I
shared is based out of love, and
being mindful of what the future
might look like, or, you know,
I'm not saying it to put anybody
down. So if anybody's offended,
but, you know, there's look
beyond what's in front of you.
There's nothing outside the box,
that's, you know, PA,
well, it's food, food for
thought. I mean, what we're
doing, what we're doing is we're
throwing out something and
saying, think about this, and
whether it doesn't mean that you
can't just focus on that, if
that's all you want to do, if
that's your passion, that's what
you want to do. And I have one
client who was a patent
attorney, and really, which is a
much more rare breed, you have
to be you have to have, I was
putting sway I took Pat lawn in
law school, and I don't have the
right undergrad degree, the
patent attorney was like the
only thing available that I
could take. And I took it, I'm
like, Yeah, I see why you have
to have a different kind of
degree than what I have to be a
patent lawyer, because I was
terrible at it. Because they
don't have the tech, the
technical language for it. But I
had a claim as a patent lawyer,
and then she offered trademarks,
and hire somebody to handle that
for her as she has an additional
thing. Because a lot of people
have that expectation of IP
attorney as having a full bench.
So not just trademarks,
copyrights, but also patent. But
we'll move on away from this
topic for you and I get
ourselves into trouble. Um, one
of the things that you you said
in another interview, I was
listening to that I just wanted
to like reach through the screen
and have you was you said that
people need to stop
overthinking. And you were
talking about making decisions
quickly making decisions with
adult sit on decisions. Yeah, I
think you were specifically
talking about hiring. And you're
saying don't sit on decisions.
That within a couple of days,
you should be able to make a
decision about hiring somebody
in your if you're staying more
than that. You're overthinking
and I literally have had some
clients have gone years years
and not been able to pull the
trigger to hire up attorneys and
I, they'll hire staff left and
right. But there is a fear
around hiring other attorneys,
and to go years while making
excuses for not doing it. How is
it that you got to the point
where you're like, stop
overthinking this, you really
within a couple days to make a
decision, do it. What is your
thought process? Was I mind that
Emery always that way? Or was
this something that you've
learned over time?
No, I think all of us all humans
are created with especially
lawyers, because we're so
analytical with, you know, aside
that we're visionaries, we see
something in our head, and we
want it to be that way. And if
it doesn't line up with that,
then we're not, we're not
willing to, you know, finish it.
So I think it's a mantra that I
worked on. And it wasn't like
this again, I had to work on it.
But it was the mantra is done is
better than perfect. And I said
that to myself over and over and
trip signs around me kept
repeating to myself that isn't
perfect, and I started
practicing it. Especially when
it came to videos, I think
that's it usually becomes more
practical when it comes to
recording videos or putting out
content. And I got to a point
where I do not care about the
quality of what I've put out. I
am totally okay with spelling
mistakes. I'm totally okay with
slip ups. I'm totally okay, if
my phone drops off in the middle
of the podcast. I'm totally okay
with that. Go with it. It's
totally okay. Because why it
shows your true size your real
side. And I'm okay with just
getting it out. So just be okay
with imperfection. It's totally
okay. And if you look at your
life, your life isn't perfect.
Your relationship perfect, your
marriage isn't perfect.
Everything's not perfect. Be
okay with that, too, is stop
comparing stop. Whenever you get
to the point when you're like,
is it should I do this, or this?
It's a cool idea that my mentor
always says is like both went up
both. Say I'm thinking of doing
this or this is like both? Do
it, see what the result is. And
then from that point on, then
you'll make a decision. So I'm
always looking for any excuse to
do anything like I don't I don't
think about whether it should or
not, I just I just do it, wait
for the result to come back.
Then that also practically also
helps to have somebody that you
can talk to, ideally, a mentor,
or a coach, or you know,
somebody that you work with. I
mean, some some for some people,
it could be your spouse, but
somebody that you run and
thinking about this, what do you
think about this, they'll tell
you their thoughts, just run
with it. I have a mentor, it's
been such a crucial part of
growing so much. And now because
I saw the power of that that's
basically I think, was one of my
missions. And my intent behind
doing click funnel is for me to
be a mentor to other people,
because I know how valuable that
is. And I'm doing I know you do
that for a lot of people through
everything that you put out.
Everybody needs a mentor. When
you have a mentor, you don't
overthink things as much,
because you're able to put your
ideas down. And this is what I
practically do is as I go
through my day, different
decisions, different things come
to me. If I can make a decision,
great. I do it. If not, I just
park it into my notes, called
mentor notes, whatever. And then
when I do get to talk to my
mentor, I just go down my list
and Okay, think about this. And
it just just tells me his gut
instinct reaction. I just
accepted and I just act on it. I
don't you know, I just say okay,
okay, cool. Okay, sounds good.
Okay, I just go down the list,
record my notes, and I go just
down the list and it delegated
or just implement, and start
things right away like that. So
get a mentor, or get somebody
there. You can ask questions and
clarify your thoughts.
Yeah, I love I love that. And I
have when you're talking about
perfection, books sitting behind
me is one of those things that
just we had editors, we had
proofreaders we had. And the
first thing when I picked it up
and opened it I saw a typo in
the table. Like quiz for people
go find that typo in the table
of contents, I saw it
immediately it was a miss
misspelling of words may have
left out letter. And I just
like, Ah, I because I as a, as a
professionally trained Ender.
This is like nails on a
chalkboard to me and we get of
course, and I flipped through
the book and I start
highlighting all the mistakes,
everything I see. And, and, you
know, I was told send it, send
it send us back and we can fix
it for you. I have yet to do it.
Because I'm so busy moving
forward all the time. That to
take the time to sit and go
through and mark everything and
make sure it's done, pass off
and have them fix it just hasn't
been as important to me because
the content is good. It's valid,
there's great and for the people
that for the people it's meant
to serve it will do that job.
And I think that's the hard
part. It's an ego thing. You
know, it's very much an ego
thing. And I experienced that
myself because I I just I just
hate it when I put things out
and there's a mistake in or
whatever. But now over the years
so many things go out and this
takes that it's like I can't
always be I had some my mentor
say to me, you can control all
the details you have perfectly
every right if that's what you
want to do. Like you can control
all details, or you can grow,
but you cannot have it both. And
that's really hard for detail
oriented people like me, like a
lot of other attorneys, who
just, you know, we want things,
we don't want it to go out
unless it's absolutely perfect.
But we have to, we have to weigh
the value of the thing that we
provide what we're doing. So if
you're, if you're, as attorneys,
the work is so important in
terms of in terms of it can be,
save people money, it can save
people, they're long, they're
very long, you know? And where
are those things are the most
important? Yes, those things are
critical, right? It's critical
when you're with somebody, life
is online, in your hands, and
you're, you're there and you're
doing that, but from a business
standpoint, from a son was
social media marketing,
publishing a book, putting these
out there, or maybe hiring
people and trying out their
skill sets, and then, and then
deciding which one is best
letting one go, like
overthinking all of that is
going to be the thing that's
going to stop your growth. So
there's a time when it's
appropriate to think like a
lawyer and that lawyer hat. And
there's a time when it's
appropriate to think like a
visionary that you need to be if
you want to grow your business,
right?
Yeah. And practically, I think
for most lawyers, and at least
in my experience, it's like,
this whole idea of done has been
perfect. I think it's more
applicable for making videos. A
lot of lawyers, I think
everybody everyone has a law
firm owner needs to make videos
these days, by the way, to kind
of incentivize or kind of tell
people or motivate people to
make videos is to tell is to
limit for me to tell you that
each video that you make is
essence is essentially a rental
property. Back in the day, we
had to save up a lot of money,
to be able to hopefully be able
to put down a down payment for
us to buy something that we
could rent out to hopefully that
will make us 1015 bucks a month
a month of passive income. Well,
that in our generation of video
could be those rental properties
they can create, put out to the
world, and that will kind of
feed you and future clients for
many, many years. But
unfortunately, a lot of go get
stuck because they want it to be
perfectly, you know, have to be
dressed up on that stuff.
Instead, if you just cherish and
be okay with making non perfect
videos and just pull out your
phone and just start talking and
just post it up and through
experience, you get better and
better. That will take you a lot
further and and kind of build a
foundation for the next 2030
years. If your law firm put out
these videos, and hopefully in
2022, they will live out there
for the next 1020 years.
Yeah, well, I think that's the
fear some people have. And I
will say, you know, like, for
those of us who are, I'm in my
50s. And so for me, it is one of
those things that, you know, I
don't want to I don't watch the
videos myself I am when I first
started recording my podcasts,
of course, I hate the sound of
my voice, I don't want to listen
to it. So I'm just recorded to
not listen to them. And I love
God, I don't know, there may be
a lot of imperfections in my
podcast, I don't know, I don't
care, I put it out there, I get,
I get the feedback that I get
one way or the other. Um, but I
know that it can be a challenge
for a lot of people because we
don't, we don't want to see
ourselves or we don't want to
hear ourselves. It's not who we
think we are in our mind or
whatever it is. And, and we're
afraid people are gonna judge us
I know, I have a my Instagram
person wanted me to do reels.
And I've done some reels. And
I've had a couple that really
hit tremendous success
considering that I've sold a
real growth phase. But and they
were just the two dumbest
reasons. Right. But that's the
thing is you never know what's
going to hit and you don't get
better at it. If you don't do
it, and you don't practice, I
still do enough for her. Because
it's not always the priority for
me, but you don't know until you
try and I try what I try to
focus on is I try to think about
my own experience in listening,
watching videos or, or listening
to podcasts. In that I'm there
for information. I'm there for
what they're talking about, and
the subject, I'm not focused on
whether or not the person looks,
you know, some kind of way in a
video, I'm focused on now voice
definitely makes a difference.
Um, you know, there are certain
people's voices that you can't,
but that's okay, there. If
somebody doesn't like your
voice, and then they're not your
audience, they're not the one
who's meant for you. It's just,
you know, like, you'll find your
audience and people who can deal
with all your little
idiosyncrasies or whatever. But
it is hard to not to not be
critical and judge ourselves.
Once you start putting things
out there and you start getting
feedback from people going, oh
my god, you just saved my life
or you just changed my life or,
or, you know, that was amazing,
that little nugget that you
shared or whatever, that's when
you start to know and you're not
going to have that experience
unless you just jump in and do
it.
Right. Correct. Or one of the
thing I want to add to it to its
logical when they put out
content they have expectations
of certain number of likes.
shares, comments, things like
that. And a lot of people get
bogged down on that, or they
rely on that too, in order to go
to continue producing content.
If you completely just ignore
numbers, and just focus on wife
control, which is how many
videos you can put out how you
can serve your clients, then
everything else will come
easier. For me at this point,
I'm so numb to numbers, I don't
care, I'll I'll post as many
videos with no likes, and no
comments, I could care less.
Because I know over time, as
long as my intent is right, and
I'm putting out good stuff,
that's all that matters.
What I always find is the
workers are the ones who hire
anyway. So people who are
looking and commenting or
whatever did not say that I
don't love people who comment
and who like and give me heart,
you know, I love that. But the
ones who are your buyers of
whatever type of service you've
got are the ones who are
following you for a while and
they're probably not commenting.
They're probably not liking
there. And but they're the ones
that got the cash and the money
to spend with you. So keep in
mind you there's a whole shadow
audience out there that you're
not even aware is out there. And
the more you put out, the more
likely you're going to, you
know, expose yourself and the
good work you do to those to
those people. Um, I do think
with it, I don't know if you've
had this experience with some of
your attorney clients, where
they are concerned, because
they're concerned about putting
a video out there where they're
going to share some legal
tidbit, and they're going to be
wrong, or some other attorneys
gonna argue with them or
anything like that. Have you had
anybody say that to you about
it? Because I know that that's,
like been underlying secure
insecurity in some people, but
I've heard,
yeah, again, another major
limiting belief. But these days,
I'm like, so conscious of these
limiting beliefs. As soon as
they hear it, I'm like, it's
hard to like, argue against or
argue for it, just I'll just put
out there. So limiting belief.
Yeah, we could get into it. But
it is just a limiting belief.
Well, let's talk about what a
limiting belief is, for those of
you who aren't familiar with
that language, cuz you know, you
and I know what that means. So
limiting belief, tell me how you
define a limiting belief.
It's a thought that you have
about yourself that prevents you
from doing what you really want,
what you're really capable of.
And the thing about limiting
beliefs is that only you place
it on yourself. So it's self
made. But in reality, what I do,
instead of our program, the
first thing I do is I make
everybody write down their
goals. Okay. Second thing we do
is if you do achieve these
goals, how will you feel? So
that's usually your why. And
then the third thing that you do
is what are some limiting
beliefs that you have about
yourself that kind of held you
back up to this point? A lot of
people will say, I'm not
technical enough. I'm not, you
know, I'm not a good delegator,
I'm not this and that, okay, put
it out there. And I just wait
for people to put it out and
have great put it down on your
worksheet. Now, I want you to
take this, the statement they
just made to me and flip the
knots into his and his into his
knots. So if I'm, if I'm not
technical enough, now, let's
just flip that over to I am very
technical. I mean, and you mean,
everybody flips it? And I'm
like, now repeat that to
yourself. And everyone's like,
Oh, wait, I am technical enough.
I am good enough to do this.
Yeah, I just realized, Wait,
this is just things that I just
told myself, but doesn't
necessarily have to be true. And
really is true. You know, I
remember one time I got into
advice for how to remember
names, is teacher was instructor
was, was teaching about how to
remember names. It's like, let's
I'm gonna tell you one lesson.
From this point forward, I want
you to tell yourself that you're
great with names, you're given
names. And he just flipped it
for us. And then from that point
for me was like, 10 years ago, I
learned this, I'm like, No, I'm
actually great name. So since
then, I've been craving names.
That is what that is amazing the
power of the power of how we
talk to ourselves, what a
difference it makes, and what we
can accomplish and not
accomplish. And it's a struggle
that, you know, as human beings,
we all have those points where
we're have insecurities, or
doubts or whatever, but it's so
important, the language that we
use when we talk to ourselves
who are good at work or not.
And, you know, it's funny,
because you say that about
technology, and we have a very
clear division of task in my
household because my husband and
I both are entrepreneurial. And
I'm the reader and he's the one
who handles the tech stuff.
Because, you know, with my
experience as a writer, and as a
tourney, I, you know, reading
contracts, whatever, I'm the
reader, when it comes to
technical stuff. He's I don't
have the patience for it. And I
also think that just because I
don't have the mechanical
mindset or the technical mindset
or the patience for it, doesn't
mean that I can't accomplish
what I want to accomplish
because I'm looking at the WHO
THE HELL right looking at who it
is, that can do that for me and
handle that for me. And he's,
he's wonderful. You know that I
live with my tech guy, right?
But also, I don't rely solely on
him. I look for other people who
have hills have the skills to be
able to help me set things up
and make things happen. And I
know how to do things I learned
how to how to because I don't
ever want to be at a point where
I can't get done what I need
done. But it, it is not I know
it's not the highest and best
use of my time. Right. So I'm
looking, I'm always looking for
other people who can do things
to support me so I can focus on
the thing that is really my, my
gift, you know, my superpower or
whatever. And it can be hard
when you when you're good at if
you ever heard the expression,
like, when you're good at a lot
of things. You're really and
you're focused on those things
that you're good at, you're
keeping yourself from the thing
that your greatest your zone of
genius, or whatever you want to
call it, because you're so busy
being good. And that was a big,
a big aha moment for me how much
time I spent doing things I was
good at. When I first started
this business, I was doing a lot
of the doing for clients. And
really, the mindset work is the
thing that was most powerful for
them. I didn't need to write
copy or, you know, whatever, to
help them. Even though I'm good
at it. It wasn't the thing that
I'm truly great at or truly
wanting to do. You mentioned
such amazing plants right there,
that division of labor and who
not to how one thing I also want
to add to it, too is being so
self aware of who you are
knowing yourself, and being true
to yourself that you know
yourself that you're like this,
being true to yourself that
accepting who you are. And
again, as you mentioned, you
your actions should go towards
what you're good at, and what
you enjoy doing. And then let
everyone else handle the rest.
That is really like one of the
secret sauces of being
successful. It's being true to
yourself and only doing those
things that you're great at and
enjoy doing everything else they
have it off. Sam, I thank you so
much for being here. You and I
could probably talk for another
hour I know. But we probably
need to wrap it up. And I think
it would be good to look
familiar podcasts. This is going
to be coming out in about a week
from today. We're recording it.
And we're also going to have it
on YouTube so a lot of people
will be able to see and hear and
share their comments and their
thoughts in you know, tell us
where we're right and tell us
we're wrong. I really appreciate
you being here. Thanks so much.
Thank you so much, Davina. I'm
gonna give props to you because
I know you serve her audience
with your whole hearts on you.
You're really giving on to the
world while your best that you
really enjoy doing so anybody
who has been watching the
following Davina, listen to her,
take her actions, whatever
program that she has, sign up,
do it because it's going to be
good for you.
Thank you. Thank you so much. I
appreciate that. I'll talk to
you soon.
Thank you
