Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

Unknown: Hi, everyone, and
welcome back to the wealthy

woman lawyer Podcast. I'm super
excited about our guests today.

Of course, I'm super excited
always want to have guests on

because it's so fun. But this
particular guest is somebody

I've been wanting to interview
for a really long time, because

I've been following her work
since day one. And that's Andrea

Sager. Andrea is the CEO and
founder of legal printer. So if

you're a lawyer in at least in
my circle, I know you've heard

about legal printer. It's a
legal tech startup that focuses

on providing affordable legal
services to businesses of all

sizes. While working at a
corporate firm, Andrea noticed a

gap in the legal industry, no
one was catering to really the

small innovative startup brands
that were dominating her social

media feeds. And as a serial
entrepreneur, she knew firsthand

the importance of building a
business with a solid legal

foundation. However, she also
knew that many new businesses

simply do not have the funds to
hire lawyers and have their own

lawyer, that realization led to
the development of legal

printer. And because legal
services should be accessible to

everyone, she wanted to create
something that would make that

possible. In addition to running
her company, Andrea is a mom of

two in Houston. And she's
passionate about all things

health, wellness, poker and
business. And we're going to

jump in and talk about all of
that. So Andrea, welcome,

welcome. Thank you. Thanks for
having me. I'm excited about

this. Yay. So why don't you
start out by telling me you will

tell me when you started your
journey as a lawyer? Did you

always know you wanted to be a
lawyer? Or was this something

that, you know, later in life,
you said, you know, I think I'll

go to law school and become a
lawyer. Yeah, so I didn't always

know that I wanted to be a
lawyer. I just grew up knowing I

want to make a lot of money. And
then in college, I just thought,

oh, I want to be a lawyer make a
lot of money. And not knowing

that, really being the business
owner is what makes you the

money. But growing up, I didn't
know any lawyers or

entrepreneurs, my parents are
retired from the post office.

And so they had, I mean, they
had no guidance for me, they

just always told me, and I
believed them when they said,

You can legitimately do anything
you want, and always, you know,

encouraged me to go to college
and just do bigger things. And

so that's what I did. And that's
what I tried to do. And when I

was in college actually was in
the army, and I was supposed to

be active duty. And because of
that I did so I did ROTC, I

commissioned as an officer. And
I call I got what they call an

educational delay to go to law
school. But I was actually

supposed to be an active duty
officer. However, my who is now

my ex husband, he ended up being
active duty. So they allowed me

to like not basically, long
story short, didn't have to

serve an active duty. And
luckily, I got the big firm job

out of law school. And so I'm
thinking I'm set for life, I,

you know, got the big firm job.
I was like, I'm gonna be married

to my job, this is gonna be
great. I'm never gonna have to

think about money again. And
little did I know, that was not

the case. I remember. I remember
starting at the big firm, the

first week I was there. And it
just hit me all of a sudden, I

mean, I did my summer
internship. But that first week,

I so vividly remember sitting
there in my office, and watching

all of these old white men and
three piece suits walking down

the hall, getting ready for
retirement, and I was like, Oh,

my gosh, they've been here since
they were my age. And that

moment, I was like, Oh, my gosh,
I cannot be sitting at this desk

for the next 40 years of my
life. And so from literally the

first week, I was like, How do I
get out of here, but we had our

son, who is now five, he was
eight months old when I started.

My ex husband was started
staying home with our son at

that time. So I was the only one
making money. And I had another

small business that I sold as
soon as I started at that firm,

and really what it really just
came about organically a lot of

those business owners that I met
from my other business, it was a

clothing boutique, they would
reach out to me like hey, I need

help with this. I need help with
this. Can you help me file a

trademark, and I'm thinking the
firm's gonna love me because I'm

a first year associate, I'm
bringing in business. And I was

like, this will be my place in
the firm. I'm just a rainmaker

and most of the time the clients
couldn't afford the rates but

finally I had somebody that
said, Andrea, I don't care how

much it is. I just want to work
with you and I need to get a

trademark done as soon as
possible. And I'm like, great.

Like we can do this and I'm I
was excited and

When I had a partner tell me he
was like we, he told me this to

my face. We do not want small
businesses, they're not quality

clients. And in that moment, it
hit me. And I think a lot of us

have these defining moments in
life when we realize, hey, I'm

meant to be on a different path.
And that was it. For me, it hit

me, I said, I have to get out of
here. Like I'm from that moment

forward, I was planning my exit,
because I saw this consistent

flow of small businesses that
needed some help. And they

didn't have anybody to go to,
they didn't know who to go to. A

lot of them would go to, you
know, whoever their dad sent

them, like their dad's lawyer,
for whatever reason, they didn't

understand, I can't tell you. So
anyways, I started.

I started my firm, I think, a
month and a half after that

incident.

I launched my firm, and I'm not
going to say was always,

definitely not always smooth
sailing. But luckily that night,

I had I that night that I
remember posting in a Facebook

group, I was like, Hey, I'm
finally out on my own. I have my

own law firm, I can help you
with, you know, trademarks,

copyrights, whatever you need.
And because I was still trying

to find my place, and I had my
first trademark client that

night, and and Andrew Sager law
was born.

That's a great story. That's a
great story, I want to touch on

the incident that you had,
because I find that really

interesting when I worked for I
worked for a large law firm. At

the time, I was not a lawyer, I
was the marketing manager for a

large law firm. And they, the
partners, you know, I had a lot

of access to the name partners,
because I was doing all the

marketing for everybody. And I
was on the Marketing Committee.

And I remember, one of the name
partners said to me, we do not

want, we don't care about
business development from

associates, because we want them
in here working. And we're going

to be like in the back, keep in
the back room, throw in a meet,

and they're just supposed to
just grind out. And they did

want new associates to get
started on business development

until they were seasoned and
older, because they said they

are not going to bring in the
type of clients that we want.

Just what you said. Right? The
very, and that is that's typical

of big, big law. But that leaves
for those of us who are

entrepreneurs like you and I
are, we know that leaves a big

gap. Because there are a lot of
entrepreneurs out there who are

small potatoes and their mom and
pops and they may never get to

be huge. But that doesn't mean
that they don't have a lot of

legal needs. They probably have
more legal needs. Oh,

absolutely. Right. Absolutely.
So how long was it before you

decided that you needed to even
be more dialed in and efficient

in sort of serving this
population?

Yeah, so because I had a small
business before I kind of knew

the marketing game. And I knew
from the outset, okay, I want to

grow my audience, I want to get
in front of more people. And I

knew when I first launched, I
was like, Okay, I think I know,

this is what they're going to
need. And at the beginning, what

I thought that was was a huge
push on trademarks, and

copyrights, which was later
refined to mainly just

trademarks. And so I kind of
lead with what I thought, and

then I listened to the clients
and what they were needing. And

soon enough 80% of our revenue
was coming from trademark

matters. And what happened then
was, those clients would come

back and ask for more help with
contracts or Entity Filings. And

so I from there, I kind of
refined our core or what I call

our core offerings. And then
what I realized very quickly was

these, just like you said, they
need more help the small

business owners, they need more
education, because they they

don't know what they need. A lot
of small business owners know

they need legal help, but they
don't know exactly what they

need. And they don't know why
they need it. Because a small

business owner, they're not
going to know what to look for a

lot. I can't tell you how many
times clients asked me like,

hey, is this infringement? Or is
this okay to do? And so really,

it's a matter of educating the
entrepreneurs, small business

owners. And so very quickly, I
came up with the philosophy for

us is that hey, we educate
everything for free. Like we

will teach you everything you
need to know. And then when it

comes to how to do it or doing
it for you, that's when we're

going to make our money. Because
I remember

I think I learned this from
roommates at he's the author of

I Will Teach You To Be Rich. And
I remember reading his first the

first edition of his book back
in 2010. And so I've been a

longtime follower of his and he
always used to teach lead with

like, give like, teach
everything for free because

That's how you gain the trust of
your clients. So I have always

done that. And I attribute that
a lot of that to our success.

Because clients don't know what
they need. And instead of them

wanting to, they don't want to
work with an attorney that's

like, hey, hire me for a
trademark it so they hear from

those attorneys. And then they
hear from us, like, Hey, this is

what a trademark is. This is how
a trademark protects your

business. And this is how a
trademark can actually make you

money. Like, oh, I want that.
Right. Right, right. Absolutely.

I have I remember when I started
my virtual firm in 2011, I had

had a firm before that. And then
I sold out and it started when I

was I decided, well, I'm going
to do, I'm going to focus just

on business, small businesses.
And I was doing estate planning

still. And I was going to this
networking meeting with a lot of

small businesses there. And we
had this hot seat where people

would get up, you know, when
they talked about what they did,

every week, I was getting them
telling me what I did. And then

one day I was on the hot seat.
And I said, you know, I I said I

am. You know, I don't remember
exactly how I said it. But it

was like, I'm a business lawyer.
So I help you with writing

contracts and doing things like
that to protect you. So you

don't wind up in litigation. I
did not do litigation at the

time, nor did I have an interest
in it. And one of the people

said to me, so what I hear from
you is that you want money now,

you want my money now, and then
you're not going to be there for

me when things go wrong. And I
thought about just the lack of

like understanding I wasn't
communicating

the value of what I was
providing. And they were so they

had their own their own stories
that they were telling

themselves so that it goes back
to, if you're not telling the

right story, then they're going
to fill in the gaps with

whatever their history is and
bring it to the table. So what

you're doing is you're really
weaving a story and telling a

story around through your
education around what it is it's

necessary, if you want to own
and operate a small business,

because now more than ever,
people are starting businesses,

they're reading all these
articles about how great it is

to have your own business. So
you have a whole lot of people

who have no idea what they're
doing, and can get in to a legal

quagmire very quickly.

And so the education is in place
for them to go. Absolutely.

Yeah, the education has been
huge for us. And so now we have

a pretty decent following on
tick tock, and that's just

solely from education. And it's
just learning. It's and we

haven't, I mean, I definitely
have not always nailed down the

education. I remember, really
what came when this came about

was I think it may have been my
first year, I was I created a

course, about trademarks and
copyrights. And I, of course, I

have these huge plans like I'm
going to, because at that point,

I mean, everybody was talking
about, you know, launching a

course and making six figures
from this launch. And so I had

like all these big plans. And I
had somebody helping me create a

it was like a VA and after I
mean, we sold a few, but it was

definitely nothing. What I
wanted, and we kind of had a

break down meeting to you know,
break down the numbers. And you

know, the messaging and she's
like, Andrew, I think part of

the messaging is people don't
know why they need it. Like,

clearly, you know what you're
talking about when it comes to

trademarks and copyrights. But
there's a disconnect, because

people don't understand why they
need it. She's like, I know why

because I you know, I'm in here,
I'm creating this. I'm deeper

into it than they are. But
there's a messaging disconnect.

And and from that moment
forward, I was like, yeah, like

they're not educated to the
point to where they know what

they need and why they need it.
And so we've I've just broken

from then on, I've just kind of
broken it down what I call our

core three for small businesses,
and just educate, educate,

educate. And then because we've
educated them, they trust us,

and now they use us for whatever
they need. Yeah, wonderful. So

you are I remember a post that
you made at one point it was a

blog you wrote or something
where you hit you were very

close to half million dollars,
like in one year. I don't know

if you did that year one with
legal printer, or what so tell

me about that film fill in the
gaps for me. Yeah, so I launched

my firm. It was like the end of
April early May 2018. And I

launched it then but we very
slow year. Wasn't really all in

at that point. We moved across
the country. I studied for the

Texas bar exam, and actually
forgot to turn in my essays so

it did not get scored.

So that happened that summer.
And then after I took the bar

exam

Um, I

started really picking it up and
I started pushing, you know,

pushing for a lot of podcasts.
And so that first like from

April, May, and 2018 on, I think
I brought in that year 60 to

70,000. But my first full year
of business, I brought in

$430,000. And I, I always so
that's a huge number. I like

looking back now. I'm like,
that's crazy. And I remember

that is crazy. Yes. And I
remember at the time, my goal

was actually 500,000. And so
there was part of me that was

like, I didn't hit my goal. But
looking back, I realized this, I

think a year ago, I've never
actually hit a financial goal of

mine.

Which I think is kind of cool,
because I just actually set

these outlandish goals. And then
I just come short of them. So

it's still like, holy shit, like
I just made all this money.

Yeah, I said, I said, do the
big, audacious goal, do a

stretch goal, like not so
ridiculous, that you're like,

oh, we'll never achieve that.
But enough of a stretch, that if

you fall short, if you were to
set the goal that's first in

your head, and you achieve that,
you'd be okay, that was great.

But if you stretch goal, and
then you go above that original

goal that's in your head, even
if you don't meet your stretch

goal, you've made a lot more
money. So you're not leaving

money on the table, by setting
yourself a stretch goal. So you

actually feel better. Because
even if you don't achieve the

goal, you have made more than
you would have from your first

inclination, which is that
reasonable, you know, the

reality goal that we're gonna
set. Right. So that's, that's so

wonderful. What do you think,
was the key to you? So you had

your law firm? Did you ever she
started out practicing kind of

one on one, and then you decided
we need to go with this sort of

model where we were providing
products, we're actually giving

bundles and products and, and,
and courses and things like

that. So it's, it's a lot more
education, but also service,

right? At what point did you
decide

to the legal printer model was
the one the one you wanted to

do? Yeah, so that came about
when

we launched it right after COVID
hit and right before COVID hit.

I was thinking about this model.

And the event. So this was 2020.
And I was wanting to go all in

with legal printer then and sell
my firm because I mean, ever

since I think, yeah, I think it
was 2020. I mean, I've had

people trying to buy my firm.
And I so many times I've come

close, and it just never went
through.

And each time I was just like,
I'm just not ready. I'm just not

ready. And finally, I'm actually
in the middle of closing the

deal right now to actually sell
it. And I am going through with

that because it it actually is
time to sell your actual law

firm. Andrea Sager law and so
yes, not the governor, not the

league, correct? Okay, correct.
So,

at this point, what I was
realizing, so we had a really

good hold on the education
component. We're just constant

inbound leads. And I always told
people like, Hey, we're very

middle of the road, we're not
the cheapest, we're definitely

not the most expensive, very
middle of the road. And I was

very happy with where our prices
were. But even then, I saw

clients

not being able to afford it, but
absolutely needing it. And

really, what, when it came about
the first product was contract

templates. And what had happened
a number of times was clients

would come to us and like, Hey,
I'm launching a course, I need a

course contract. And so I would
take them through my process of

drafting the contract for them.
And they literally had no idea

what they needed. So they just
ended up using my template. And

in my head, I'm like, Well, this
is great for me, because I'm

obviously making more money than
just selling them a template.

But I know there's more people
out there that need these

templates. So after seeing that
happen a number of times, I

decided, Okay, it's time to
start a separate company,

selling these contract
templates, and selling and of

course, at the time, I was like,
Okay, we're gonna start with a

template, and we're gonna, like,
do all these other things. And I

didn't think it was going to
take a number of years, but it

did, which divine timing. So

So at launch the conch it was
the contract vault, we launched

that and then slowly started
building that from there and we

had our it's our legal printer
membership is our signature

product that gives clients all
access to an attorney, and that

was launched.

That was actually launched in
the law firm 2019.

And we just now put that in the
legal printer company.

A year ago.

Basically, at the end of 2021,
early 2022, we transition that

we launched the app and
everything, but really seeing

how more clients needed the
resources, because they still

couldn't afford our our rates.
That's really when legal printer

came about I Right.

And

for legal printer, you have kind
of a bigger vision with that as

well. So getting selling the law
firm is part of allowing you to

sort of focus on this bigger
vision for legal printers. So

why don't you give us an idea of
kind of what your bigger vision

is? I say that I know you have a
live event. And you have a book.

I want to hear all about like
the yes, we have very, very big

dreams for a legal printer. So
it was actually last year. So

meanwhile, I

September 2020, I decided to
step away from my marriage, it

was not fulfilling basically, we
were in two different books. And

I didn't realize at the time,
how, like, I knew I was kind of

being held back. But I didn't
realize to what extent and so

stepped away from that I didn't
realize, like even though I was

the one walking away, I didn't
realize how crazy things would

be for the next year. So So

did a lot of healing work a lot
of just figuring out, you know,

who am I what do I want. And
mind you, at this point, I was

making a million dollars in the
law firm a year, working maybe

20 hours a week. And things were
easy, things were great. But I

was I was no longer motivated by
the law firm. And I'm in a

Business Mastermind and the last
meetup last year and 2021. I

almost didn't go I had told it
to my business mentor Chris

harder. I had already told him I
was like, Hey, I'm not gonna go,

I just have too much going on.
And he was like, okay, he's

like, I really think you should
be here. It's gonna be really,

really beneficial for what
you're doing. And at the time,

legal printing was still was
just like our templates. It we

had a trademark course that we
launched, it wasn't what it is

now. And so I so I wasn't going
to go to this meetup. And

literally, within two days, my
best friend who's my COO, she,

she kind of her dad passed away.
And then my other best friend,

literally the next day, he
called me and told me he found

out his son had cancer. And so I
literally, I was just in a

matter of like, 48 hours. I was
like, What is going on? I need

to get away. And because there
was nothing I could do for

either of my friends like they
were having to deal with this

stuff on their own. And I was
like, I need a trip. And I was

like, Oh, I have a trip books.
Let me just go to the mastermind

meetup. And I went, and you can
ask people that were there. They

can tell you like my
transformation throughout the

week, I show up and I'm like,
Look, I'm here. And because at

this point with the law firm, I
was just like, I'm motivated. i

But it's, you know, obviously
it's good money. But I just

don't know what's next for me.
But I you know, I just at that

point, I was feeling like I was
done with the law firm. So I go

to this mastermind meetup. And
it was basically a perfectly

curated week to realize, Wow,
this is what I meant to go all

in with, because I remember
Chris was talking about, he was

like, a lot of you are actually
sitting on something great. And

you're holding yourself back,
you're selling yourself short.

And so he, the week was built on
talking, having a lot of

investors come in actually
talking about building a

business to sell. And so he
actually made us do a shark tank

pitch competition. And I got
groups and like, certain people

pitched in, my group had picked
me to pitch and I was like, Holy

shit, like I've been sitting on
it the entire time. Like it is

now time to go all in with legal
printer. And so I saw the vision

for it back when I launched it,
but then, you know, I decided to

go through a divorce instead.
But now it's finally coming to

the forefront. And what was
really beautiful was I had done

so much healing the whole year
before that. And I realized the

reason I was no longer motivated
with the law firm. i Are you

familiar with the Enneagram?
Yes. So I'm an Enneagram. Three

High Achiever like always
achieving, and healing like all

the childhood trauma and
everything I realized, like

everything I had achieved up to
that point was to gain the love

of others. And including my law
firm, I was building and

building and building to try and
gain a love from my ex husband

that I was never going to get.
And so once I reconciled that I

just realized like, this is why
I'm no longer motivated with the

law firm. And I actually can go
all in with legal printer and

build this and achieve what I
want to because I want to not

because I'm trying to achieve
anybody

else's love. It's because I want
to. And because I can. And so

year ago, we decided to go all
in with legal printer. And now

we have a goal to sell for a
billion dollars the thing. So in

five to 10 years not happening
tomorrow, but

eventually we're gonna sell for
at least a billion dollars. And

so we're taking, obviously the
legal printer membership, which

is our signature product, we're
building another version, a

smaller version of it. And now
what we're creating our big

project for the end of 2022.
Early 23 is an attorney

certification program to certify
legal printer attorneys to teach

them a how to serve clients the
way we've found success and

serving them be how to truly run
a business because we've learned

a lot of attorneys actually
don't know how to run a

business. And we're handing them
clients. So we're getting the

clients for them. And we're
handing them the clients that

they can now serve. So it's
going to be a two way,

essentially a marketplace.

And we're also going to be
creating legal printer payments,

which is going to be our own
payment processor, we're our big

thing is going to be
guaranteeing against chargeback

protection. And so a lot of
clients that we see

it's not chargebacks, honestly
are not that big of a deal. But

it is a huge fear in the minds
of clients. And so if we found

like, hey, if we can just take
this fear from them, and

guarantee like, hey, even if you
get this chargeback, if you can

prove, you know all the things
that the credit card people ask

to prove, and they still deny
you. And you're actually using

our contract templates, you're
doing all the things that we're

teaching you and telling you
then no matter what you're going

to be guaranteed against that
chargeback.

Well, that's powerful. Because I
know that's a huge fear in the

coaching. In the coaching
community in the coaching world,

you've served somebody I've
heard of, you know, I had a

colleague who delivered all year
long and then had somebody

charge back and didn't tell her
so that was a huge chunk.

Imagine an annual private
coaching experience so brutal. I

want to go back a little bit, I
know, I know you're selling the

law firm. So you kind of left
that behind. But before we move

away from it, I want I would
love it if you would share

because I know a lot of our
audience wants to hear they

heard that little part of Yeah,
we got it to a million. And, and

this is all happening really
fast that people don't know if

people realize that. But like,
those of us who are in the

business world who've been doing
this for a long time. I think a

lot of people through the
pandemic have been experiencing

things really fast,

certainly in the online space,
but in your law firm, I'd love

to know, I'd love for you to
share with the audience, how you

think you were able to scale to
a million dollars so quickly, in

terms of getting the clients
like what marketing initiatives

did you have?

So

one of the big things, I think
was actually marketing, I think

a lot of attorneys think like,
oh, if I hang my shingle,

they're gonna come but no,
you're I actually have a market.

And so I went into my law firm
with a mindset of, hey, I'm a

business first. Not like, I'm
not trying to be the best

attorney, I'm trying to be the
best business owner. And not

that I'm not trying to be a good
attorney. But there's a very,

very, very big difference there
between trying to be the best

attorney because it actually
doesn't matter if you are the

best attorney in the world if
you don't have clients. And so I

always went with the mindset
like, Hey, I am going to put

forth the effort to have as many
clients as I can. And I will

figure out the law stuff as I go
along. And that's what I did I

so my first big thing was really
pitching podcast, and really

getting in big with those I like
I like to call them business

influencers, but people with an
audience. And so my big goal

was, hey, I want to build my
audience, I want to build my

email list. And that's what that
was really our big push to get a

lot of clients and it worked.

I don't want to say like, Hey,
my legal skills weren't up to

snuff. There was a new

a new study or not study but a
new ranking published, which a

lot of the like trademark
attorney rankings are like, hey,

top law firm for applications
filed, but there was a new one

published that actually took all
the data into consideration. And

it was like as far as
applications filed, versus

registered, you know, successful
responses to Office actions, and

I never ever cared about those
lists. And I I've never applied

for any of them. But this

One, they actually analyzed all
the data and out of 50,000

trademark attorneys, I was
actually number 27. And I was

like, wow, like I, really,
that's you, thank you. And I

think it. I know, it's really
easy to get lacks and repetitive

in our practices, especially if
you only are doing estate

planning, you're only doing
trademarks. And so you think you

know the answer. But very early
on, I just saw a lot of these

small business owners like they
just needed somebody to give

them a chance, they just needed
somebody to work with them. So

there was a lot of matters that
I took on that a lot of other

attorneys wouldn't take on, I
had so many people out there,

like, Hey, I talked to this
attorney, and they said it

wasn't worth it. And I looked,
I'm like, Hey, like, it may

actually take some extra work,
but I think we can get this

approved. So if you're gonna, if
you can trust in me, that, hey,

this may take some extra time.
Like, I think this is going to

work. And so luckily, I had a
number of clients that, you

know, believed in me and trusted
me. And we went a lot of things

that we were actually surprised
that we won.

And some days, you know, some
days, we did lose things, or

like, we definitely should not
have lost that. But I think it's

really going above and beyond
for the client, because at the

end of the day, we're all human,
and we want to be seen and

heard. And so actually taking
that empathy and those, you

know,

human intelligence skills to
your clients, like that goes a

long way. And so first, like,
our the big thing was getting an

audience once we had the the
audience and the clients, it was

really treating them as human
beings and seeing them and

hearing them, and then just
referral after referral. I think

that's a huge piece that a lot
of law firm owners miss,

certainly I see it in some of
the discussions on social media

of sort of complaining about the
clients and, you know, coming on

and telling some clients story.
And, and I do think there is a

piece here that there's an
opportunity missed.

Of above and beyond service,
because especially now we live

in such a world where it's hard
to find good service, everywhere

you go, you're frustrated,
because you're dealing with

people who don't want to be
there don't want to be in their

job. And so whether it's an
airline or a restaurant, or

whatever, a doctor, where you
can't get an appointment for a

year, you know, there's a lot of
this kind of lack of service, I

do think people are missing the
opportunity of providing that

boutique, high end service that
that service where we're really

paying attention to what the
clients are saying, and

responding to them and kind. I
recently had an experience

myself where I had a negative
experience with somebody that

I've just hired to do something,
and I paid them a lot of money.

And I emailed like three people,
including the lady who owns the

firm who sold me on the service.
And I've heard back from this

the lowest person on the totem
pole, and that the owner of the

company has yet to come back to
me. So of course, that's in the

back of my mind. And I'm going
hmm, you know, what I what

review? Will I leave for this
person? What? Yeah, well, I tell

other people, because I'm, you
know, I had somebody, email me

who said, Hey, I had this
experience, it wasn't great. So

I think there are missed
opportunities for not really

treating people as human beings
on the other side, whose money

is valuable to them. Right,
right. And that's this owners

have that finite amount of
money, and that's valuable to

them, you know? Yeah. And that's
honestly one of the things that

we're going to be teaching in
the legal printer attorney

certification, because what I
realize is going through my own

healing journey, like these
actually aren't things that were

taught. And it's literally
sometimes just as simple as

fully hear, like being present,
when hearing out the client and

having them like give this even
if you know, like, it doesn't

matter, them giving me these
details, like clients literally

just want to be heard and feel
seen. And so it's just maybe

sometimes just as small as
actually hearing them out and

saying, Wow, like, I'm so sorry,
you had to go through that.

Let's see how we can get this
handled. I can't tell you how

many and so many times that I've
actually dropped the ball on

something, and the next phone
call with the client, like of

course, I'm dreading it because
I'm like, waiting on them to

like, chew me out. But you just
still take the empathy and, you

know, take the, you know, have
the bigger, I can't think of

what I'm trying to say take the
high road and say, Look, I

totally dropped the ball here.
And I'm so sorry about that. And

this is how I'm going to make up
for it. Like some attorneys in

that situation there. They just
ignore it. They just like try to

sweep it under the rug, and you
just have to take ownership of

everything. And that really just
goes a long way and that's it

sounds so simple and

It's, I've talked to some people
that are like you really going

to teach that in the
certification? I'm like, yeah,

like, unfortunately, I was never
taught a lot of this stuff. Like

I actually had to learn this. So
I know if I had to learn this,

other people have to learn this
as well. Yeah, yeah, we have

those discussions a lot in the
league and the wealthy woman,

lawyer League, where we're, you
know, they're learning

everybody's learning business
skills, and how to grow their

business. And we have a lot of
those kinds of discussions of

how to handle you know,
situations. And it's so

important that customer service
piece, that client service piece

isn't on met opportunity.
Because you know, if somebody

feels like you're their
attorney, that that's going to

be a lifetime loyalty that you
can get and the referrals that

come from that.

Before we run out of time, I
want to cover some other things,

though. And one of them is you
just came off of a live event.

Why don't you tell us a little
bit about the live event? And

then tell us about your book
that's coming out? I think in

January, so launching in
January? Yes, yes. So last year,

I had two things that were on my
heart. And I, it was so crazy,

like I never ever thought about
doing these things. But that was

number one hosting a live event.
And number two, writing a book.

So the event it first it was
called legal printer live. And

the idea behind it was, hey, we
are a company founded on legal

education, legal services. And
most people view that as scary

and intimidating. But in order
to break down that barrier,

we're going to host a
conference. And that lets people

see like, hey, like, yes, we
mean business. But we also like

to have fun, and we want to help
you grow your business. Because

if you're not in business, then
we don't have clients. So very

quickly, I learned, okay, people
think this is only for

attorneys. And it's for anybody
it was, you know, we had

attorneys there we had any type
of business owner there. And

that so we renamed it to dream
bigger. And that was because I

realized Chris harder helped me
realize, like, Hey, I'm actually

not dreaming big enough. And so
to dream bigger, that stuck

really well.

And so we hosted that last week.
Oh, it was incredible. I can't

tell you how many people
literally came up to me and even

since have deemed me and they're
like, that event has changed my

life. And I'm like, oh, yeah, so
you went from attending an event

that changed your life to
hosting an event that changed

your life within the span of a
year? Yes. And I honestly wasn't

expecting people to be like,
Wow, this changed my life. I

just wanted people to walk away
and be like, Oh, my business is

my business. And I am going to
be better because of this. But

people were just so moved. And I
think a lot of it is just

realizing there is so much more
for us. And what I kept talking

about was like, Hey, if you're
feeling this, like you're

feeling this hate, there's
something more to life for me

like this can't be it. Like this
event is for you. And so many

people were like, yes, like
that's exactly where I am. And

it just makes my heart so happy
because so many people walked

away and they're like, this 100%
changed my life. How many

attendees did you have? So we
haven't speakers? Yeah, so we

had about 70 in the room. And we
want to grow this to hopefully

be an annual conference and just
continue growing and breaking

down the barrier of having legal
be scary. Yeah, yeah. That's

wonderful. That's wonderful.
You're, and that's a good,

that's a good size event for
your first event like that.

That's I mean, people who've
ever thrown events, realize what

it takes to get butts in chairs,
and get people to commit not

easy to travel, somebody had
traveled to it.

Before we talk about your book,
I do want to go back and touch

on one thing with your that you
are licensed in Texas and where

else, I'm actually only licensed
in Ohio. And so listen to this

one. So this always threw people
for a wrench. So I lived in

Kentucky. I went to school in
Kentucky, but I worked in

Cincinnati, so I got licensed in
Ohio. And then I moved to Texas,

which is why I did the federal
trademarks. And so for a while I

did have an attorney that worked
for me that was licensed in

Texas because obviously a lot of
people thought I was licensed

there.

But I remember the first call to
like my getting my first

malpractice insurance. He was
like wait, so you have a

Kentucky phone number, your
license in Ohio, but now you

live in Texas, and I was like
malpractice carriers like this

sketch. Yeah, he was like, I
just want to make sure I have

this right. And I was like, Yes,
I was like I promise I'm only

practicing federal matters. And
so and honestly that's why we're

creating

The legal printer attorney
certification kind of like that

network, because a lot of small
business attorneys, a lot of

those solo attorneys,

I want to create the network
that essentially the big firms

have, who are licensed in Ohio.
But because they have an office

in New York, they felt like they
they do whatever the client

needs in New York, even if
they've never met the the

attorney trying to expand your
network of resort, right? Hey, I

want to ask you, because I
because the contracts is what

comes to my mind is how are you
you have people from all over?

Because the internet's
everywhere? Billing these

contracts? And so how do you
kind of ensure that that works

for them where they live? So for
our contract templates, we tell

them, hey, this is industry best
practices. You want to have a

local attorney in your state or
country review them? We so the

legal printer right now we serve
clients in the US, Canada,

Europe, and Mexico.

And always expanding, and with.
So even for the International,

we've had a number of
international clients. So like,

hey, will this work in my
country? And I tell them, hey,

it's a great starting point. But
have a local attorney review it

for you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I
wanted to be clear on that. So

people listening, the attorneys
listening, sort of understand

that. So before we wrap up, tell
us you you do have I've

mentioned your book a couple of
times, what's in your book?

What's it going to be about?
Give us the scoop? on it? Yeah.

So like I said, I was last year,
I was feeling very cold to write

a book. There's, I mean, I don't
we did our research, I don't

believe there's any book out
there like it. It's called legal

printer, the business owners
guide to legally protecting your

business. There's no really
legal guides or books out there.

For small business owners.
They're all just textbooks. And

nobody wants to read that. So
it's really teaching, putting

all of our free education in one
place. Because our if any, I

tell people, I'm like, Hey, if
you want to learn about this,

like go listen to the podcast,
go to tick tock Instagram, go to

our blog, like it's all out
there for free. But now I'm

like, Hey, I think we need to
write a book to compile it

concisely in one place, and
really weave in stories,

examples from clients, and
really easy to understand, like

how tos. And so that's exactly
what the book is, it's

legitimately a guide to legally
protecting your small business.

And so that's going to be
launching in January. Super

excited about that. One thing
I'm actually really excited

about as well, is we've been
doing a lot of partnerships with

Nationwide Insurance. And so
that Yeah, yeah, so I'm hoping

they're, we're talking right now
about possibly having them

sponsor,

like the book launch party,
having more resources, you know,

back and forth between them to
help

small business owners get
insurance and getting those that

are already insured, you know,
legal questions answered. So

hoping to take that partnership
with the book to the next level.

Congratulations on being an
author. I understand the amount

of work that goes into that my
first book took me years to get,

because I had so many pieces and
parts and stops and starts. And

then finally, it took somebody
just to say, Okay, you just need

to sit, volunteer and get the
thing done. By the time I wrote

the first book, I was already on
to the next to next and next.

And so to me, it was, you know,
not not where I was at that

time. But it's always wonderful
to provide those levels of

education. So there's the
somebody who has $20 to spend,

can get answers, if they will
take the time to sit and read

the book, right? And then, and
then those who want to go a

little deeper, or learn in a
different way, then you have

resources available for that,
and so and so forth, you know,

so I think that I think that is
a wonderful way to sort of serve

people is to offer a lot of
different options. And so you're

between your book, your podcast,
all those things, plus your

courses and your templates, and,
you know, and you're speaking

the conference, all those
things, it sounds like that

you're doing a lot of that you
do have the vision, so we're

going to be cheering on cheering
you on and watching, it seems to

me that the legal printer has
been around for longer than you

said. So when you started
talking about dates, I'm like,

Oh my gosh, you know, it hasn't
really you've done that in a

very short period of time. So
definitely something you should

be very proud of. And I know you
are. Thanks so much for being

here and sharing with us today.
I hate that we're about out of

time, but tell us how people can
connect with you if they want to

where they can look out for
updates.

It's get on your mailing list
and all that stuff. Yeah. So

right now, if you want to
preorder the book, it's the

legal printer.com/legal printer
book. And if you have any

questions, just want to connect.
I love talking to attorneys that

have questions because what I've
learned is so many attorneys,

they also need help. You may be
great at your craft, but you may

not be great at running a
business and so I love just

helping out when I can. So my
email is Andrea at Andrea

sager.com. And you can follow
along on Instagram at Andrea

Sager law. Great, thank you so
much, Andrea. I appreciate it.

Thank you