Episode 279 Most Popular 2024 | From Part-Time Solo to Multi-7-Figure Law Firm CEO with Vanessa Vasquez
Our our firm values and our firm's culture is really important. And we ask questions during the interviews that really, I feel, help us to get to the heart of the matter of, is this the right fit for you? Is this the right culture? You are we're not the best paying law firm in Miami. There's definitely family law firms that pay better.
Vanessa:But we but you're not answering calls weekends.
Intro:Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers? Ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more. Then take an insight or 2 to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love.
Intro:Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's Devina.
Davina:Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick, and my guest today is Vanessa Vasquez de la Raa, who is the founder and owner of Vanessa De Laura Law Group. Vanessa has dedicated her life to helping families navigate the intricacies of the law by ensuring their rights are honored and upheld in family court. She graduated cum laude from the University of Miami School of Law in 2002. And shortly after starting her own law firm in 2015, she was named to the super lawyers rising stars.
Davina:She's been recognized as one of the elite family law attorneys in Miami and named to the Super Lawyers list every year since 2016. Vanessa currently serves as the president of the Coral Gables Bar Association, and she's on the board of the Miami Dade County Bar Association. She's also been featured multiple times on Univision's Desperta America, the number 1 radio national warning show on Spanish language television that's been running for 2 more than 2 decades. So please join me in welcoming Vanessa.
Vanessa:Good morning, Divina. How are you?
Davina:I'm doing well. How are things in sunny Miami, Florida?
Vanessa:They are sunny. I just came back from Phoenix where I was at this weekend, and there was a random cold snap, but it was, like, 50 degrees. So it was nice to come back
Davina:to my nice sunny, 75, 80 degree weather. I'm a native Floridian, and I had just moved away 6 months ago, less than 6 months ago from Florida. So first time I've lived any place besides Florida my entire life. I moved to Colorado, and we absolutely love it here. It's so beautiful, but it's a lot colder for sure.
Davina:I'm doing
Vanessa:I am a hot blooded Caribbean girl. I get on anywhere that regularly is in below the 60.
Davina:LLC. I absolutely love it. After a lifetime of Florida, I couldn't get any more hot. I was so over it. Alright.
Davina:So let's jump in and get started. Why don't you tell me about just first of all, tell me about your law firm and who you serve, how you serve your clients, that kind of thing.
Vanessa:Absolutely. So I've I have the Gaskett Law Group, and we are a family law firm here in Miami, Florida. And we are looking to, make our make lives better in and out of family court. Our ideal clients tend to be divorcing dads, but we actually service, you know, both both sides, parents, you know, moms and dads. And, we're doing that with a team of about 25 people right now.
Vanessa:I've got, 6 associates and support galore.
Davina:Oh, good. Good. Good. So that's what we wanna ask you about. We have a whole lot of questions about the growth of your law firm.
Davina:I know our audience is really gonna be interested in that. But let's go back to the beginning and start. Did little Vanessa know that she wanted to grow up and be a lawyer, or was this something that evolved in your through your lifetime?
Vanessa:So I think it it was probably an undercurrent of being an attorney. Like, most Hispanic families, I feel like there's a, you know, there is there's a whole you can be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, and science was that my thing. So, that wasn't something that was explicitly stated. When I was growing up, I actually wanted to be a pilot. And for high school, I was even in a in a special aviation magnet program here in Miami.
Vanessa:But it's hard to be a pilot if you don't wanna go into the military. So I I left those, aspirations behind. Right. And my undergrad, I actually chose it because their their, advertising, marketing materials said that every pre law student of their choice had gone into the law school of their choice. And I was like, well, I don't know how many pre law students there were.
Vanessa:I had never found that major. I actually majored in business and international business. But took the outside before I graduated and, you know, went to the University of Miami. I I came home. I didn't wanna leave again.
Vanessa:So, you know, I'm a
Davina:proud hurricane. Yeah. Yeah. You're are there any other lawyers in your family or you were you the first?
Vanessa:I am the first as far as I know. Then maybe, like, you know, lots of outside branches, but definitely of of everybody that I know, I'm I'm the only attorney.
Davina:Right. Right. So you really sort of probably, you really did the family proud by becoming a lawyer. I like to think so. So tell me your when you went to law school, did you have kind of an idea of what type of attorney you wanted to be?
Davina:Did you always know you wanna be a family law attorney, or did that evolve?
Vanessa:Not at all. I think our our colleges and our law schools in this country do such a bad job of helping the students understand, like, this will help you to be that. And here's what you should do, and here's what you should think about, and here's what you should research. I really did not. I I said in law school I wouldn't do criminal law, and I wouldn't do family law.
Vanessa:So, apparently, the only thing I will do is criminal law. Right now. Right now. But it's been 20 years. That's, to it, but you just never know.
Vanessa:So yeah. So, you know, it's really one of those things that I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I graduated. You know, I took a few months to kind of, like, chill out. And then I just started looking for any job, any associate job.
Vanessa:And my first associate job was actually as a probate attorney. And so that's kind of how my career started. And, but we were living, you know, in Sierra of Florida. And you may know some of the the distances, but I grew up in Kendall, which is kinda suburbs of Miami. But when we got married, my husband and I moved to the Sunny Isles, and that was right right when I graduated law school.
Vanessa:So it was a a a big commute back to our our church, our family. So within a year, we were like, okay. I think we need to I think we need to head back head back to our people. Yeah. And I took a job as a family attorney, and it, like, kinda brought the probate with me to that firm.
Vanessa:And I that's that's kind of where what I've been doing ever since. I stopped practicing probate about 5 years ago, but I, I I'm still here in the family, business.
Davina:What is it that you so you so we know commonly, those of us who practice family law that people say you either love it or you hate it. Right? And you you have to love it to stick with it for as long as you have. So what is it that you like about family law?
Vanessa:I love being able to help families. I love being able to to take our clients and be able to explain to them our system, to be able to to tell them this is your best day in court. This is your worst day in court. This is what you can expect. This is what I can recommend at this point.
Vanessa:I I have a family. I have children. I I have a husband. There's some of that real life aspect that I kind of, you know, bring into the into the mix. I was in mediation all day yesterday.
Vanessa:And, you know, I I just kept encouraging my client that at the end of the day, it feels like you're conceding, but these are things that are better for your ex and for your child. Just think about that. This is better for your child than, you know, than than something else. And so I I love being able to bring that sort of humanity into family law and and reminding them of why they're doing this and, you know, trying to, you know, kinda like the the bumper rails in in Bowie where you're trying to keep them on the lane. Like, don't go to the next don't go to your neighbor's lane.
Vanessa:That's not your business. That's not what's best for you. Stay in your lane.
Davina:Yeah. It's a very highly emotionally charged practice area, you know, because personal interpersonal relationships are like that. So it's nice to be able to keep that bring that level head and and that encouragement for people that this too shall pass, and we need to get through it, and and this is the way to do it. So I I enjoyed that aspect of family law as well. Tell me about what led you to start your own law firm.
Davina:You were working you had a job. I assume you were making good money and rocking right along. What moment has the the obviously, no. There was a moment that happened, and you said this is not working for me. What was that moment?
Vanessa:So, you know, when I had my first son, who was now 18, I, you know, I really didn't take much of a maternity leave. I didn't deal with a maturity policy in my firm, and I was really sort of my my boss's only real associate. So I was, you know, she kind of was a bit, you know, distraught, when when I was out of the office. So I came back much sooner than I had hoped. And I and I came back part time, but I came back after 6 weeks of, you know, after I had my son.
Vanessa:And, you know, I I always sort of regretted that. And, I had the opportunity to continue working part time. So in that sense, I was really good. I was able to really be present, with my son. But when I had when I was gonna have my second one, I just wasn't as happy at that firm as I, you know, I and I initially was.
Vanessa:And so I just, you know, told them about, hey. I I'm I'm not gonna come back. You know? When I have the baby, I'm giving you the notice now. I think I gave her, like, 3 or 4 weeks notice before I was scheduled, you know, to to have the baby.
Vanessa:And I'm like, I can help you. If you need it, you can reach out to me, but but I'm not coming back. You know? So I I gave her that that notice so that I knew that I I was comfortable, that I was gonna be able to wrap whatever, you know, up. And and I actually ended up staying home with the boys for, you know, for a few years.
Vanessa:I bought a scrapbooking store. I closed a scrapbooking store, and I had an online scrapbooking store. And there came a point where I just kinda went, I'm selling $1 sheets of paper, and I'm a lawyer. I think I should go back to lawyer. So Do you do you think you hit that
Davina:do you think you hit it was like a it sounds like there was a burnout because you were so she counted on you so much. And then you're like, I need to just I need a break from this. And the motherhood gave you that sort of reason to step away from that. What did you discover about yourself when you kind of took that detour and said, maybe I need to do something else or be something else? What'd you discover about yourself?
Vanessa:So I discovered that I really love owning a store, but that I wasn't very good at it. I think I'll be a better shop owner today than I than I was 15 years ago when I had the store. But I I really enjoyed, you know, the you know, being sort of, like, at the register and saying hi to all of our customers. It was a the store had been around for about 10 years, so there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of repeat customers, and we used to do a girls' night out. So, you know, it was it was a very enjoyable period of time for me where I kind of got to, you know, be creative and and kind of I'm actually not very creative.
Vanessa:So I I love taking our classes and, you know, getting to to play and and see other people be the creative vision. And I just had to put it together following, you know, 1, 2, 3 step instructions. Yeah. But I really enjoyed being home with my kids. I I love to tell attorneys that are are stressed about, you know, their careers derailing and they and they step up.
Vanessa:Like, listen. I it's doable. I I left it. You know, I left firm life. I stayed home for, you know, for about 3 years, three and a half years.
Vanessa:And then I just, you know, got right back on the honor ramp. You know? I I don't think that that that is something that should be as worrisome, for parents, whether men or women, when they are thinking of taking those kind of break.
Davina:Yeah. I'm not a parent, and I did the same thing. I stepped away from my after my first law practice, I stepped away for a while. I opened a gym and with my husband, and we owned a gym for a while. And then I eventually got back into the law with my second law firm.
Davina:So I understand what that's like kind of a and it was a it was a it was a wonderful opportunity to be able to check-in with myself and go, what what was it about that experience that didn't work for me? And can I create a different experience in the law? And I think that's the gift that comes out of something like that is, like, you really get to think there's another way to do this than the way that I've been doing it. And so that way for you is to start your own firm. So what what kind of led you to think I'm gonna start my firm instead of getting another job?
Vanessa:It's funny because I used to say when I worked at that other firm, that I would never start my own firm. My boss always seems to have thought and always always seems a little bit hairy. But, you know, the the reality is that I had the the the blessing, really, of being able to have a husband who supported me when I stopped working and have a husband still supported me when, you know, when I opened the firm. So I did have that ability to, you know, to not have to stress about I need to replace my salary. So I was able to really start it just very slowly.
Vanessa:I I rented an office one day a week, and I would drop the kids off. They they were both in part time in preschool. And I would drop them off, like, 8, 8:30. I picked them up at 12:30, and I just worked for a few hours. And I was able to really do that.
Vanessa:So so I was able to build a firm very organically by just, you know, starting out one day a week, then 2 days a week, and then, you know, slowly built it up into, you know, a 7 figure business that it is today. So I I really love that aspect of it, that I was able to sort of more consciously choose how to build it. And I've really prioritized our our firm's culture. I don't get it right all the time. I don't think anybody does.
Vanessa:But it is a, you know, something that is at the forefront of the things that we do in our firm because I I wanna see what I didn't have or what, you know, I didn't know to ask for or, you know, just anything that will allow, especially
Intro:my
Vanessa:associates, to be able to to thrive and and to be happier than I was when Right. You know, when I was an associate.
Davina:Right. So you don't wanna create that pressure cooker feeling that you had because somebody relied so much on you. It's one of the things that I talk a lot with women law firm owners is, you know, people sort of envision the first associate, and they don't really think beyond that. And I think that's a huge mistake because not just from a money making standpoint, but from a standpoint of redundancy and bringing down the stress level of everybody in your firm. When you have more people, you have more team players to help get the job done, and that takes the pressure off individuals, which is often what we see happen, right, when people just hire one associate and then they work that associate to death, that person leaves, and they're right back to square 1.
Davina:Did you make that sort of mistake at the beginning with starting your firm? You you did a part time, and then you grew. When did you hire your first associate?
Vanessa:Oh, goodness. Let me think. I wanna say it was, like, 2016, 2017. And and So you hadn't been
Davina:in business for how long?
Vanessa:So I went back to work around Joshua was born in 2008. So we opened officially, like, 2012. Okay. So I've been I've been practicing about 3, 4 years. And I had a a part time associate, and then I brought out a full time associate, and then, you know, the part timer left.
Vanessa:Then we brought out another full timer. And and since then, you know, I I I don't think we've ever had just one associate. And we've it's it's literally exactly what you're saying that I you know, we we got the the news that one of our paralegals was leaving recently. And I was, you know, I when I was in Phoenix, I was with this amazing group of women at a, you know, at a at a retreat. And they were like, well, are you worried?
Vanessa:And I'm like, no. There's 4. There's 3 other paralegals that we decide another one that starts in 2 weeks. So do I hate dish and bleeding? Of course.
Vanessa:But I'm not stressed about it because, yeah, dividing one employee's, you know, labor into 4 other people is very manageable. But, yeah, when, you know, when there was absolutely a time when we lost, you know, 2 associates, like, within 3, 4 months of each other. And I only had 2 associates left. I had 4, lost 2. And at that point, you know, you really can divide 2 workloads into 2 more people.
Vanessa:So that really put me back into production. But then that just encouraged me to hire 2 more as quickly as possible Right. And and train them together so that I'd be able to kind of, you know, do a personal training 1 on 1 with me. And and that way we'd be able to, you know, to to ramp them up and get them, you know, comfortable as quickly as possible. So it definitely it it's definitely hard to consider that you would hire multiple employees.
Vanessa:But it really is, you know, that that that's really the the catalyst to being able to make more money and being able to free yourself because you can't be out of production when you only have one person, you know, doing all the things and that person is you. Or there's only one other person and that person leaves and then it's bad to tell you. Yeah. So I know. Let me ask you.
Davina:I'm sorry. Let me ask you this. Your what were your feelings around hiring that first associate? Because I know a lot of people I have so much fear, and they almost, like, build up in their head to be bigger than it is. There's so much fear around hiring another lawyer, and so it feels different from hiring a staff person because suddenly it's a fear that you're hiring.
Davina:And will they think you're a bad lawyer? Will they think you're a mess? Will they think there's that aspect that I think nobody talks about. And then there's the aspect of how can I pay this person? That's a big salary.
Davina:How many of you did you have those thoughts when you first hired an associate?
Vanessa:Of course. Everybody does. The reality is that I think we we stress out because we're thinking of what an associate's gonna make in a year, what this is gonna cost you in a year. And, you know, this was a while ago. So, you know, I I will tell you that that that, that associate value is probably, like, in the 50,000 range.
Vanessa:And when you're thinking, like, $50,000, you know, that's like, but I only 50,000 today. Today Right. I need 0. And, you know, in 2 weeks, I need 2,000. Whatever then.
Vanessa:Yeah. And then in another 2 weeks, I need another 2,000. And, you know, and that really when you sort of break that down, it's sort of like, you know, almost like the reverse engineering that that I feel is is so important on all your sort of, like, things that feel very overwhelming. When you think about the fact that you just need the next paycheck and the next paycheck Right. The next paycheck.
Vanessa:And, you know, and and in family law, 2,000 is, like, one client.
Davina:Right.
Vanessa:You know, that's that's not even one client. That's, like, half a client. Yeah. So And that's, like
Davina:And that person should be making that money for you because they're taking on that extra client like you don't have time to take on for sure. What would you did you have the same thought process process then when you started adding associates, or was that was another level of sort of fear around that?
Vanessa:The the first few, I was really good about that. You know, the first few staff, I remember doing a a a talk. I was a speaker back in in lawernomics. Back when Abel used to put that together. And I remember telling you know, talking about it in my speech where every employee that I brought on doubled our firm's income.
Vanessa:And it's it's it was almost like budget in the beginning. And it's not because these people revolutionized my practice, but it's because it frees you up, and you don't realize how about down you are in all the things until you're not doing the thing. You know? Like, you you're doing the secretarial labor. You're doing the paralegal labor.
Vanessa:You're doing the the receptionist labor. You're doing, you know, you're doing all the jobs. And and that can be very it's not necessarily that, oh, it took so much of my turn, but that's like that mental load of carrying all of those jobs for the firm. So as soon as you unload that, it's like clarity and you, you know, you're you're able to sort of, like, not only free your time, but free your your mental ability to consider what's the best use of my time. Is it to do consultations?
Vanessa:Is it to go out and network? And back then, I didn't have any money to spend any money, so networking it was. And, you know, and and that, you know and and I feel that that was really the reason why, you know, we were able to to increase our our revenue, you know, so much. So in the beginning, like, I I it was very sort of, like, almost like 1 to 1, and I would see that happening. And that was really exciting.
Vanessa:But it does get to a point where you're like, it's not possible. And now my payroll is 10,000, not 2,000 or 15 or 20. And you start sort of like, okay. That's, you know, that's that's not one client. That's, like, buying and crazy.
Davina:Right. Right. Right. And so that's a whole different level of mindset that you have to get to. We can if we can do 1, we can get 5.
Davina:Right? Amel, before we and before we go down that path, I wanted to go back and ask you, what did you did you ever struggle with delegating? Because I see people hire and then still hang on to things. And and if you did, well, how did you overcome it? And was there anything in particular that was the hardest thing for you to let go of?
Davina:I know that was a a that was like a triple question in what,
Vanessa:but creation, objection. Exactly. So I I have to tell you that one of my superpowers is being able to delegate. I I don't struggle with that. I I I think that I am not the typical attorney and that I am not a perfectionist.
Vanessa:So I don't feel that I need to review it and and every single detail. And and I and I do think I got that probably from that last boss. You know, she perhaps because of, you know, the load and, you know, I I she had a a family firm and a title company for real estate. So, you know, so she was always sort of, like, doing all the things that she delegated very easily to me, all the sort of associate lawyer work. So I I sort of had that as an example.
Vanessa:So I that is is definitely one of the things that I I did not struggle with. And when I hire associates, I let them have their caseload. We meet very regularly to make sure that, you know, that they're on top of it, that they're that I'm helping them to to think big picture, to strategize. But I am I'm not super worried or super concerned about delegating. It might be that in family law, you know, I think a little bit different than in some of the other things.
Vanessa:So few things are unfixable. You know, like, there's no statute of limitations that you can blow. There's no, you know, even if if you make a almost always it's fixable. You can read ask for a hearing. You can ask for you know, you can you can do a lot of things so that you can amend the pleading.
Vanessa:You can, you know, like and our our judges are not so such stickler that, you know, there's a little typo or something. It's gonna, you know, the judge is gonna blow up. So that really helped me to be able to sort of let go. And and so that that I I thankfully have not struggled too much with. There's always gonna be things that you keep, you know, closer to the best and you that you feel like you can't let go.
Vanessa:But the the freedom on the other side of being able to delegate is so amazing that I honestly feel that if perfectionist ever got to the other side, they'd let go. They they'd be better at it. So, you know, for for those that that might be listening or watching, absolutely, they they they they need to try it. They small doses, but they gotta try it because you you really are able to do so much more. I took a 2 weeks spring break because my son's school gave him 2 weeks.
Vanessa:And I was a little connected, but I told my staff, I was like, don't email me. Don't copy me. Don't anything. If if the building is on fire, call me. But, otherwise, try not to need me.
Vanessa:Yeah. And they really they really didn't for the most part. You know?
Davina:Yeah. And I It's wonderful to be able to have that to be able to have people on your team who can function with that autonomy. And do what do you think your I'm I'm sure just like everybody else, you've had people come and go, and there were probably times that you thought, oh my god. I will never be able to get the right people on my team. But what do you think do you have any sort of, secret to sort of getting those right people on your team who are the critical thinkers who don't need that kind of hand holding?
Vanessa:I think it's really important to make sure that you are vetting the staff, of course, But not just about, you know, their legal knowledge, but about just their thought process in general. Their you know, how they work best, how they are able to, you know, to really put forth their best effort and and trying sort of like to to dig that out. Our our firm values and our firm's culture is really important. And we ask questions during the interviews that really, I feel, help us to get to the heart of the matter of is this the right fit for you? Is this the right culture?
Vanessa:You are we're not the best paying law firm in Miami. There's definitely family law firms that pay better. But we but you're not answering calls weekends. You're not answering calls at night. We end the day, you know, when you leave the office, that should be the end of your day.
Vanessa:Obviously, we're lawyers. If you have a hearing tomorrow, you may be prepping at night. But, you know, but there isn't that expectation, which I find in a lot of family law firms where you're sort of on call as if you're a doctor, and there isn't anything that I can do at ATM for you. Like, if if you're getting arrested, you gotta call your family for a bondage in your you're taught me. You know?
Vanessa:Like, there's there's so little that our team can really do in those circumstances that we, you know, we we've really trained our clients. Like, that this is not how we operate. And and I feel that that that's kind of like something that that sets our fair apart as for our employees. And that allows them to sort of be able to, you know, to to that have that elusive work life balance. But we ask questions.
Vanessa:We we really try to probe when we're, you know, when we're interviewing people to make sure that they understand that that, you know, the the type of culture that they're getting into. One of our core values is family. And I like to say that, you know, that we're not that that we're a strong family, so we have your back like a family, but we're not afraid to tell you, you know, when you're when you're screwing it up just like family should. So, you know, so I I wanna make sure that we are attracting the right people and that we're repelling the wrong people in our advertising, in our marketing. And our marketing is intended for our clients just as it is for our staff.
Vanessa:We've had people apply that are like, I've been watching your one ads because I I wanted to work for you, and it just wasn't the right time. So I've been keeping an eye out. And that is really gratifying to hear that, you know, that that the that what we're doing is is attracting people long term, you know, that they're keeping an eye out for for when we have opening.
Davina:I think we've underestimate how our a lot of people think in terms of core values. Is this an exercise I have to do? Right? And it doesn't really mean anything. Or they think of core values in terms of marketing to get clients.
Davina:But core values are really intrinsic to how we function, how we especially if you're the it's it's gonna come from you if you're the leader of the firm that you're growing. You're creating a culture that fits who you are as a person and who you wanna attract, and that works not only with clients, but also and more importantly, with team members because you want people who are coming to work with you, who I who are just coming because they need a job and a paycheck. But they A 100%. Come because of the the mission, the work Yep. And being a part of an organization where they feel included and part of it.
Davina:How do you think you how do you think you do that? Right? What are your, I know you've done probably done core value work and all of that, but how does that show up practically
Vanessa:I can tell you your business. Exactly how I did that. I I attended a leadership workshop where, where the the facilitator talked to us about making sure that the team members are buying into your core values. Right? And the the practical application of that is that we will we have staff meetings on all All Hands staff meeting 3 times a week.
Vanessa:And what we will do is every other week, we will have the staff nominate another staffer based on something that they've seen over the last 2 weeks and based on one of our at least one of our core values. So, you know, Melissa will nominate Ashley for teamwork because Ashley jumped in when Melissa had a big hearing and helped her prep for that hearing. So, you know, she's nominated, Ashley for for teamwork. And the the entire team goes and and and nominates another team member, uses our, you know, that core value to be able to demonstrate that, you know, you know, that that what that nomination is for, and somebody wins every week. I don't pick.
Vanessa:The team member that wins this week gets to pick the winner next you know, in the next one. And so we I feel that that is our way of of sort of keeping an eye on each other, I think, in a good way, looking for that, looking to you know, I don't think anybody is really helping and and doing teamwork in order to get nominated and get a $25 gift certificate. But,
Davina:they're just doing it because it's who they are.
Vanessa:Exactly. But, you know, but but it really builds on that family for our team because you're constantly getting that, you know, your your your team recognizes what you're doing, and they recognize, you know, you it feels nice when people say nice things about you. So that really, you know, that that really helps to to create a tighter a tighter bond with our team. And it keeps your eye out on, you know, on what our what our firm is doing and the the exemplification that that happens of our firm values.
Davina:Yeah. I imagine when you're interviewing people, you're weaving those core values in your questions. So you're probably asking people, and tell me about the last team you worked with and how that went for you or something. You're probably asking them questions around team and, and to give you examples of when they performed as a team or ask them if they like working in the team or if they like working alone and and all of that kind of stuff. Alright.
Davina:So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about Miami is a competitive environment. Florida's competitive. Miami's competitive environment. Family law is competitive field. What do you think you do to stand out, among your clients to be able to attract the kind of clients that you want to attract in your business?
Vanessa:We really try to make sure that we emphasize to our clients our team and the ability that we have that I I do find that so many family law firms here are really a solo, maybe a solo and a paralegal, maybe another staffer. And that can really help to hold, you know, hold you sort of hostage to that attorney if something happens. If they get sick, god forbid something, you know, heart attack. Go ahead. Stroke.
Vanessa:Something big. Now, potentially, you're either waiting or even small things like your attorney's on vacation. We really work hard to work in a team environment, you know, for for our clients. And we every every client has a main attorney. There's our attorneys work in pods.
Vanessa:So there's also another attorney that always knows kind of what's happening with the case. So that that way, when our, you know, when when when attorney takes a vacation and their clients call, well, the second attorney knows what's going on and can handle that call. So you don't get stuck sort of like, well, you're turning on vacation. You're gonna have to wait a week until they come back. We also have paralegals in that team, and our paralegals are constantly connecting and communicating with with our clients.
Vanessa:So that also allows for a lot of the work, especially discovering how they work to be done by a paralegal and billed at a paralegal's rate instead of being billed at an attorney rate. We've got staff that we don't bill for, but that's doing things that other firms bill for, like scheduling and things of that nature. So we we really try to make sure that we balance kinda like our our non billable team and our billable team to be able to provide that, that wrap around service to our clients so that they feel like they're being taken care of at all times.
Davina:Right. You, when you sort of, let go of some of the day to day responsibilities of working in the business, you shifted your focus to the marketing and visibility aspect. Tell me some of the things that you've done to make the firm more visible to prospective clients and referrers.
Vanessa:We do so much. We are that's what I would hear about. We are on all the social media channels. You know, we're on Facebook, which is my my home. We're on Instagram.
Vanessa:We're on TikTok. We're you know, I we have stuff on YouTube. We really do a lot to try to answer those common questions. So, you know, our our social media tends to have a lot of, like, small videos that kinda talk about the things that we hear about either in consultations or where people will comment on some of the videos and be like, but what about, you know, ABC? And we will take those and and we'll make videos that talk about some of those issues.
Vanessa:So we really try to make sure that we are educating anybody, not just our clients, but anybody about some of the different issues that they should consider. You know, it's specifically in in their family law cases in Miami. And sometimes, just like in in a general sense, like, what should you think about when you're hiring an attorney? What should you do if you're really stressed out because you're in family court? I made a a super fun video with my cat, my kid's cat, one of my cats.
Vanessa:You know, in our last video recording session that talked about sort of being able to to stress relief and, you know, and and kinda turning to your your family, your friends, and your pets about it. So we really try to make sure that we educate any of our potential clients and and put that out there. So now when you are on social media, if you stood in and you start looking for some of those questions, some of that information, you're able to find it in some of the materials that we're putting out. Otherwise, branding wise, you know, I my husband is is my COO, and he's not an attorney. He's a he's an engineer by trade.
Vanessa:He's the best addition to our staff. Everybody should hire, you know, somebody to be a COO. Not maybe another spouse. That doesn't work for everybody. But definitely having that, you know, that that executive level person who's able to make, you know, take those decision off your plate.
Vanessa:It's kinda like how I told you about bringing in those new employees. I didn't realize how much was on my plate. But though he came and took it off, I'm like, oh, wow. Yeah. Free time cube like.
Davina:I think a lot of people don't know what a COO does. Like, they don't they think to yourselves, well, I don't really spend a lot of time on operations. I mean and until they hire someone who is a COO and then they start to see things happening. What was that experience like? What did you discover that he was taking over that you had sort of been holding on to?
Vanessa:Oh my goodness. He's taking over everything. It's a lazy. I'm still in charge of the legal team, so I manage, you know, our our legal team is the the 6th attorneys, then Port Blair Legals, and he manages everybody else. So that's gonna be our in office support team, office manager, file clerk, and our virtual team, which is intake, receptionist.
Vanessa:So, you know, we he's he's been able to bring a very operational heavy sort of mentality to our firm, which is incredible because it it's a lot of he brought corporate you know, he was in corporate for 20 years as an engineer in a few different roles from quality to innovation to, you know, to project leadership. So he was able to bring a lot of that the processes of, you know, thinking through projects and and coming up with, policies and procedures and and just really getting us dialed into our our KPIs, our key performance indicators. I would set things and I'd be like, I gotta check on what? I'm not sure how to check on what? I I gotta keep up with that.
Vanessa:I gotta
Davina:But right. So data is not you. Having somebody with that brain, that type of brain that is different from your brain in that helps you to think of things that you're not even thinking about. Exactly.
Vanessa:It's that I'd love to say. You don't know what you don't know. And he was able to sort of think through in a much more analytical way in an engineering way, you know, of of through our problems and figure out a lot of different initiatives that I that I feel have really helped our firm to to perform at the level that we're performing from regular KPI meetings. And by regular, I mean, weekly KPI meetings where, you know, his team leaders are bringing him the data and, hey. I'm noticing there's there's an issue here.
Vanessa:What are we gonna do about this? And, you know, and being able to before he came on, I I collected a lot of data. I never did much with this data. So he brought in not just the collection, but collecting the right data, using that data to then be able to make good decisions and be able to, you know, keep keep the team moving in a in a very positive way because they are sort of being how they're accountable. So they know exactly what they need to do.
Vanessa:They need they know exactly what they can expect. But also being able to, you know, to to have somebody notice when they're doing, good things and bad things. Right. Great things he's, he's brought is is a very engineering thing. It's called a Kappa, and it's corrective and preventive action.
Vanessa:Most law firms, whenever there's a mistake, whenever something happens, it's kind of like, you know, it happens to fail and, you know, there's payoff and, you know but nobody ever sits down and goes, okay. Where did the process break down, and how do we prevent that process from breaking down? So it tends to be sort of like, you forgot something. I promise I will forget again. Okay, Diane.
Vanessa:I don't know how to keep you accountable to that. But when you sit down with the problem and you figure out, okay. So if we're not looking to blame somebody for this problem, we're looking to determine what are the corrective, but also the preventive action. So, you know, maybe this was a smart problem, but how do we prevent this from happening in the future so that it doesn't become a recurring problem, so it doesn't become a big problem?
Davina:I love that. And I wanna talk about the c suite be before we wrap up. I know we're about to run out of time, but I wanna talk a little bit about the c suite because I do think there are some people who are on their journey who are getting introduced to c suite long before they're ready for c suite. At what point like, how big was your firm before you started saying, I need a chief somebody, a chief financial officer, chief, marketing officer, a chief operations. You know, like, I there there is a time and place for a c suite, but there's also a time when it's too premature.
Davina:At what point for you, were you in the firm? How many attorneys did you have working for you? Kind of where were you financially before you started saying, I really am at that point where I can start developing a c suite?
Vanessa:So to be honest with you, I've had, you know, sort of like fractional c suite services for a long time. I know that you hired somebody on, you know, on your podcast, we've been like that, that was talking about that fractional CFO services. And and I find that that really helped us to, you know, to really be able to push forward because, again, there's so much that I don't know. There's so much that I've never learned. There's so much that that I wouldn't know what to look for or what's what the right questions are to ask.
Vanessa:So, you know, so I think that definitely, I think I started with fractional c suite services when we were at around maybe 4 to 500000. And that was about 8 years ago, give or take. And and that really helped me to sort of start understanding what what to look for, what are some of the the indicators and some of the things that I need to be doing or or putting into place or, you know, anything like that. And, you know, I Julian came on as our COO a little bit over 2 years ago. He's really our only full time c suite.
Vanessa:We have sort of still have factional services, but we're now looking for a head of marketing. We're now, you know, looking for more robust CFO services than, you know, than the fractional services that we've received. So, you know but we're now you know, our goal this year is to be a $3,800,000 firm. So, you know, it's definitely a big change from, you know, half a1000000 to almost 4000000. And and now is when I'm really and and I really haven't needed it because Julian has been such an amazing renaissance person being able to manage marketing and operation than, you know, and and a lot of the different, organizational and and operational roles in our firm.
Vanessa:But he's also very inexpensive because we just kinda take the profit off. You know? And if I had to pay for a legitimate COO in that spot, I I would have felt, you know, like, a little bit more, you know, I definitely would have been taking less profits home. So, you know yeah. But it's definitely something that once you're a 7 figure firm, you really need to start considering bringing those c suite services in house and and bringing those services, you know, full time.
Davina:Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because I think there's I I I think for a lot of people like, I certainly noticed this in conversations I have with my clients is you can be hearing things and think, oh my god. Do I need that? And you're not anywhere.
Davina:There's a lot of work that has to be done before you get to where you need a thing. Right? And I think that can be confusing for people. So I'm glad that you really were open and shared that with me because I think a lot of people need to hear that. Like, it it you know?
Davina:And, of course, the dream to hire your spouse and have them working for you and it working out well, and there could you know, they're great, fit to work together, all that thing. I think a lot of people have that dream. So I love hearing your story about that. I my spouse works with me in my business, and it's wonderful. He brings that, we think very differently.
Davina:And it can be a challenge sometimes in communicating because I think so differently, But he brings something that I don't that I can't. You know? So I think that's that's wonderful to hear that. Anything else you wanna share to for our audience of women law firm owners? Any advice that you would leave them with before we wrap up?
Vanessa:I love to tell people that, especially women and especially women that are, you know, perhaps, from my generation that, you know, that the the elusive work life balance that we heard as kids that, you know, that that you could do it all. Is that true? You can, but you can't do it all at the same time. And that caveat, it's like the the little asterisk. You ever hear that?
Vanessa:You know? Yes. You could do it all, but you can't do it all at the same time. And I I really encourage women to to to figure out the phases that they're in. And it might be that you are in a family building phase, and that's what's important to you.
Vanessa:And and you shouldn't feel guilty for not building your firm at the same time that you're building your family. And it might be that you switch to a firm building thing, and then you might need more support from your family at home. Or, you know, you you really have to think through your priorities and the things that are important to you and create that life that's able to meet those priorities because you can't just say, well, my health is my priority. But then you are so busy building your firm and being with your family that you can't ever actually make your health a priority. So you really wanna focus on what is it that you're looking for, what is it that's important to you, but then actually build it into your calendar so that it is a time priority, not just a thing that you say.
Vanessa:And if you build the time and then you're doing it, you're like, yeah. I don't think that this should be my priority. There's only you're the captain of the ship. You just No. No.
Vanessa:No. You get to You get to pick. You go. Yeah. Yes, ma'am.
Davina:I do I I love the you know, you can you can have it all, but you can't do it all. And I I think to me, that's the huge you can have it all. And it we're talking over a lifetime and seasons. I mean, that I think is what this comes out of your story too is how seasonal it's been. Like, you had a time when you were a young lawyer and and you you did you did something.
Davina:You know? You worked you worked for other people and you learned. You had a time when you took time off to be a mother and you tried a different venture, and then you've now you're in this time where you've been building this business. And I imagine in that time you've been building this business, you've changed and evolved so much that you're not the same person you were when you started, which is the exciting thing to me.
Vanessa:Yeah.
Davina:I think about owning your own law firm is that you I tell people if I gave you the keys to a $1,000,000 law firm when I first met you, you would probably sit in the corner in the fetal position and cry because you'd have no idea where to start because we evolve into people who can run $1,000,000 businesses. That's part of the journey is part of the gift. Right?
Vanessa:Yep. A 100%. Yeah.
Davina:Yeah. So I appreciate you being here, Vanessa. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Tell us how can we connect with you if we wanna follow you on social. And we wanna connect with you.
Davina:Where can we find you?
Vanessa:So the firm is the Vasquez D'Aure Law Group, and we are on Instagram as Vasquez D'Aure Law Group, Facebook also, but you're always, you know, able to connect with me personally when I said Vasquez Esquire in Facebook and Instagram. Facebook is my jam. And if you ever need to reach out, our law firm is at family law protection.com.
Davina:Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks, Davida.
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