Nequosha Anderson | Leveraging Tech to Create a High-Quality Client Experience
Unknown: Hi and welcome to
wealthy woman lawyer Podcast.
I'm so excited you're here today
and I'm really excited to have a
local Orlando attorney in here
in sunny Florida with me she
thought at the moment but she
lives in sunny Florida near me.
And I'm really glad to have her
here today. She is the founder
and CEO of Andersen law firm
Nicoya. Anderson, welcome to
push. I've been wanting to have
you on my show for so long.
Thanks for being here.
Oh, that is such a delight to
hear. Thank you so much for
having me. I'm so excited. I'm
gonna give you good podcasts
because I'm not gonna let you
down. I promise.
I did not worry about that at
all. You and I are fellowship
Millie's I think in Rachel, we
have years.
Yes, we are fellows release we
Yes, we are on track to make us.
Well, some of us make more.
Well, we will make as many
millions as Rachael Rogers
makes. That's
what we want to do. Well, honey,
we got to have some conferences
and don't go by ranch.
Right. But I'm glad to have you
on I want you to tell people
about your law firm. And when
you started it, what you do, who
you serve, that kind of thing.
So
no worries. So Andersen law firm
was founded in 2013. Right after
I took the bar, I went directly
into private practice. I also
worked alongside of my mentor in
his practice, for about a year
and a half, two years, I had
just had my little one. So it
worked out really, really great
for a young mom and a new lawyer
and the hours and the
flexibility. But it became a
time where I needed to secure
better benefits for me and my
family. And so I went back into
government, and I worked in
government for almost six years
of serving in a public interest
sector. But then I reactivated
my practice as of May of 2021.
And I serve women, primarily
entrepreneurs, in protecting
their income producing ideas to
make sure they are not robbed of
their intellectual property. So
my core areas of practice are
business law and intellectual
property matters. And I also
have an arm of business advisory
services in case we need to get
out of the trenches. You know,
some people are in business, and
they are in the trenches, but
they need someone to get in
there with them to get them out.
So and I think I pride myself on
doing that since I been
introduced to business at an
early age my my parents and my
dad started a business when I
was around 1314. And he got a
great lucrative contract with
the orange home improvement
store. And that went well until
it didn't. And then that was one
of the influential, I'd say,
memories that kind of spawned me
to go to law school, because I
didn't want other businesses to
be like my dad. African American
business owners tend to run into
some hardships, a lot more as it
relates to capital and support
and all those things. But they
also run into issues of things
getting taken from them, and not
having the resources to fight.
So that is one of the key things
about my, my firm, I want all my
clients to feel seen, supported
and empowered. And that can be a
plethora of things, including
education, and empowering them
with tools to fight.
I love that I was going to ask
you what inspired you to become
an attorney, I can see how that
would have been a very pivotal,
pivotal moment for you as a
child to see that. And and how
did you connect that to sort of
being a lawyer? Because as a
child, I wouldn't I don't know
that I would think to myself,
you know, that being a lawyer
would be the did you see that
person solve the problem? Or did
you reach the where that he
couldn't afford a lawyer? Or
what was the,
the connecting? So it's so funny
you say about seeing someone. So
when I ventured off to go to
college, I was completely a
computer geek. I'm still a tech
geek. So I was on the data
route. I was going to be a data
scientist, you couldn't tell me
anything different. But one day
my dad came up to me, and he
says, Well, he called me Duke.
That was my nickname. He didn't
call me anything else. One day I
was born but Duke and nobody
else can call me that. So please
don't. And my he said, Well,
Duke or I don't know what a data
scientists is what they do. And
I said Dad, well, you know, I
analyze data and I can figure
out patterns and and all these
other things with the computer
and other well, I don't really
know what that is. You want to
be no lawyer no doctor, you
know, daddy, thank you should be
a lawyer. I wonder what you
think about that. And so I I
said, okay, that so I took a
computers and the law class in
college, and it sparked
something in me. And it made me
think about what happened with
my dad and how I lit up when I
got into class, like it was the
easiest AI I ever got. And so I
went back and I told my dad, I
said, Dad, I think I think I'm
gonna do more things with the
law and my dad lit up. Like, I
had never seen my dad light up
the way he did. And I always
that's such a core memory for
me. And I always wanted to keep
that. That was my motivation to
see him light up. And so when I
applied to go to law school, I
was not the most, I wasn't the
greatest test taker, I suffered
dearly when you put me in
confined settings and time, and
it just the testing xiety just
didn't work out for me. So it
took me multiple iterations to
actually get into law school.
But every time I try, my dad was
right there behind me. You could
do it do this. Fine. We'll get
it the next time. We'll get it
the next time. It took me three
times. Took me three times to
get in. And I finally got in.
And the rest they say is history
had been he got to see me walk
across this stage. And it was a
great day.
I know you lost him recently.
And how difficult that must have
been for you. Um, so my deepest
condolences for that. Thank you
appreciate hearing. I feel like
I know much more about him. Now
the short story that you just
shared, I appreciate that. Yes,
it is to have have a parent
who's so such a cheerleader and
an influencer in your life.
Sounds like he was really
influential in your life.
Oh, I was I was such a daddy's
girl. I was my only child. And
I'm a girl. So you do the math.
Princess? Oh, yes, we were very
close. And I'm so grateful for
the time and the memories and
the influential things that he
shared with me taught me that
they they're with me right now.
Right, right. I'm so glad you
share. Thank you so much. So
tell me about your law practice
today and why? I know that
you're sort of motivation to
help business owners, but give
me a bigger picture of what that
is like and how you do
differently than other people
that you might that might
practice in those areas?
Oh, that's such a great
question. That is such an
awesome question. So my firm is
virtual. And so dealing with
intellectual property is federal
law. So that gives me some
boundary limit, you know, not as
many boundary limitations,
because it's federal law base.
But having a virtual law firm, I
tell people is one of the
greatest things that you can do.
But it's going to be a lot of
work in the beginning, don't let
don't let me paint a rosy
picture. Because you have to
give a you have to start with,
what is my client experience
going to be like from the time
they learn of me? And they're
not even a client at this point?
They're just a potential client?
What is their experience going
to be like when they learn on
me? And what is their experience
going to be like, once I
conclude the matter that they
hired me for? And that's going
to require you to have a lot of
tech tools. And this is where my
dual side of being a techie, and
now in the in the legal world is
paying off for me? Because I was
able to say, okay, logically, If
This Then That, if this then
that. If they find me here, then
I want this to happen. If they
find me this way, then I want
that to happen. So practicing
law in a virtual setting right
now includes capturing data, a
lot of the work that the data
intake and manipulating the data
the client does for me. I don't
do a lot of that. I tell people,
my onboarding process takes less
than two minutes. Two minutes
takes less than two minutes. How
is that possible? Will I have a
tech tool I use? I don't use the
normal legal management
software. Excuse me, I don't use
the legal management software. I
don't use those. I use one
called dubsado. I'm sure you've
heard of it. And it's a
customized software tool where
you can use it. A lot of people
don't like it, because it's a
very overwhelming in the
beginning because you have to
build out a lot. Well, pretty
much all of it is literally a
shale and you have to build it
out. But I like that because I
can customize it the way I want.
And I think as lawyers, we have
to think about our client and
potential client experience from
the moment they learn of us. And
I think some practitioners are
missing out on that. They have
the I'm the lawyer and this is
what But no, think about what
you want to experience I did in
my news, I sent out a weekly
newsletter on Tuesdays, and one
of the recent newsletters I did
was talking about ease, ease,
are you making it easy for
people to work with you, I know,
I get anxiety when I get when I
need to work with a
professional. And they send me
their onboarding. And it's like
this long intake form with all
these boxes doing. And I'm like,
it's overwhelming. And I feel
like some of those questions,
you asking me the same thing,
just in a different way,
thinking I'm gonna say something
different, and oftentimes be
like copy, paste, copy, paste,
and then I can't even save the
form if I need to walk away. So
if I need to walk away, I got to
start all over again, right?
Yes, Don't you just hate that.
And just
that happened recently, I was I
was interested in some services.
And I completed the intake form,
and then I got to the end, and I
was going to schedule the
appointment. And I got fat
fingered it, and it went away.
So I had to go and I had to
create the whole intake form all
over again. And then after I
became a client, then they were
asking me the same questions a
little different way, all over
again. And I was like, Oh, my
God, every time I have to fill
this out, it was so annoying. It
was from their end, I can see
where they had all this
wonderful data, that they can,
you know, make decisions on and
help and all that kind of stuff.
But for my end, you know, like,
if I, if I hadn't really wanted
the thing, I would not have
persisted. And I just kept like,
and unlike you, I'm not a techy
person. I love tech tools. But I
married my techie person. And he
are very patient with me when it
comes to technology, because I'm
very impatient when things don't
work the way that I expected to
work. So I can understand that,
but that it has been a huge
advantage. It wasn't even
something that you could do what
I started my firm in 2007, it
wasn't even something you could
do use these sorts of tools and
everything they weren't even
available at around. So I see
that it's such a huge advantage
for young lawyers now, or you're
starting out building their
businesses to be able to build
these virtual firms. And also, I
started in virtual for 2013. But
it was email telephone. It
wasn't the tools that we have
now. So it's wonderful when you
have that mindset already. And I
have that comfort level. Yeah,
to be able to set that up. What
advice would you have for
somebody who doesn't have that
comfort level, but we'd like to
take advantage of it.
The one thing that the one thing
I would share with someone who's
a little tech shy or take
anxiety or something is so write
down what the client experiences
from the moment they learn of
you to the moment they leave you
what does that mean the closure,
that means if a person finds me
on the website, what's going to
happen and literally write it
down. Because then when you go
and find the expert that can
help you implement, you already
have the workflow written down,
they just have to translate what
you wrote in plain English. And
the if then this that, if and
that will make it so much
easier. Because you know, the
client experience you want to
have, you know what you want to
do. And so with that in mind,
for instance, if you find me on
my website and you want to book
a console, they're going to
click something or be directed
to either Call my firm, or fill
out a form. Okay, when they get
greeted with the form, this is
what I need to know right away.
And you know, I always tell
people, when we do
consultations, I don't
necessarily want to I do pay
consultations, I don't do
anything free as of October
12 2021. That is no longer an
option. Because yeah, I had five
consultations that day five, and
I was so excited. And I was
like, I'm going to close at
least two of these, I just need
to close at least to write a
close zero. And I felt so
defeated. And I was like I spent
all this time I have stuff in my
pipeline that I need to be
working on. Because at that
time, I hadn't built out
majority of my team. I had a
contract attorney to help me
sometimes, but I didn't have the
team that I have now, which has
been a lifesaver. So, one
another key advice that I would
give to practitioners is build
out your team as soon as you
can. Do not wait. Because the
longer you wait, you're you're
the bottleneck in the growth of
your business. You are the
bottleneck and growth for your
business. And once I discovered
that, other people can do
certain things for me as long as
I give them the criteria for how
I want it done. On, and also
give them grace because no one
is going to do it exactly the
way that I do it. So if I have
to make a few minor tweaks, I
can overlook that because I
didn't have to start the whole
process. And I think as lawyers,
we have this inability to let
go. And we have this mindset
that only I can do it because
I'm the lawyer, well, let me
tell you what's going to happen,
you're going to fail. And it's
going to be, is going to be a
learning lesson for you. Because
there there is nothing in
failure that you can't achieve.
You will learn something or you
you gain something new. I love
failure, because I learn best
when I fail. So like that day, I
failed with those five consoles.
And what did I do when right in
my system, I use Kalindi. For my
online booking, I know there's
acuity and other softwares. But
I like Calendly. And I made it
paid. So you can't even secure
time on my calendar unless you
run that credit card or debit
card or whatever. I'm not
moving.
Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love
it. I love that. I think that's
such wisdom, there's so many
things that you said there that
are very wise. The part about,
you know, obviously, I'm a big
advocate of people building out
their team, and the sooner the
better and all that because
you're going to, you're going to
create more impact, and you're
going to make more money. And
you're going to have more ease,
like what we've talked about.
But you said something I thought
was really important. And I want
to make sure that people hear
it. And that is giving people
grace. And I think that's one of
the most challenging things for
high achieving women who are so
driven. We worked our butts off
to get where we are. And yes,
part of our training, is
reinforces are already probably
already personality traits of
controlling details, controlling
all the details, controlling
everything. And it can be very
hard when you first start
hiring. And one of the mistakes
I've seen a lot of women law
firm owners make with hiring is
that they, it it's the training
piece, they for an imagery piece
and the leadership piece, they
forget, when they hire somebody,
and that person makes a mistake,
they get really upset that this
person has made a mistake. And
instead of looking at themselves
and say, Where did I go wrong as
a leader, as a mentor, as a
trainer, because generally,
people that's where the
breakdown is. And the failure is
in that leadership and
mentorship and training, and not
having a trading system in place
and all of those kinds of
things. Because what we think we
have, we forget that we have so
much knowledge and experience in
our minds. Right? And that took
years to cultivate. That didn't
happen overnight. Oh, you know,
I develop skills along that way.
So when you're hiring people,
that there's no quick, you know,
we have to transfer knowledge
and we have to teach. But we
have to have patience along
though. So I love it. You said
that about giving grace? Is
there a particular that came to
mind that has come to mind that
you've experienced? I would
say I went through 123 I want
you to three part time attorneys
before on the fourth one that I
am now. And I lost my third one.
Three days after my dad and I
had a I had to literally I had
no systems in place. I was a
true solo. I had no systems in
place as it relates to what to
do if I'm not available to do
the work. Nothing. I had to I
found out my dad passed away I
had to draft the letter email to
go out to my entire body.
clients and potential clients to
let them know that, hey, I'm not
available. And I was the only
one. And I didn't I left my
practice in limbo on my dad's
birthday. Sure enough on January
10. And I did not return until
February 9.
Yeah, because
because what people fail to
realize on the I don't know, I
won't say fail to realize but
when you have a traumatic
experience of that nature, and
it's so instant, you know, like
it was a tragic accident that he
suffered from. It's like your
whole world is like I can't, I
can't focus I can't tolerate I
can't do anything. So I always
tell people plan for the
unexpected. And that's where the
grace level came because it's
like, I can only do what I can
do. I can only do what I can do.
If I cannot do it. It will not
get done until the next day. I
can only do what I can do You
know, you're only one person and
giving yourself grace, you know,
which I think is really hard for
people
to, oh my gosh, I was freaking
out. I'm like, oh my god, I had
this in the pipeline. And then
two days later, I shared with
her, you know what happened? And
I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm
going to send us just some stuff
to close out for me this week,
I'll deal with the rest of the
ongoing projects, you know,
manage them. Because being an IP
is always the first file. So I
know that I understand the
priority for my clients and
getting their applications
filed. And most of them were
prepped already. So it wouldn't
took me it didn't take me as
long. But it was just like, Oh,
my God, I'm by myself. I have to
figure this out. And I said, I
can only do what I can do. And
it sounds I know, there may be a
listener right now that's like,
Oh, my God, of course, you don't
know what the Falah you talking
about girl, I have this, I have
to go to court, I have babies, I
have a husband, I have a
partner, I have a sick parent, I
have a sick sibling, I have all
these things. But again, no
matter where you are, no matter
what you're going through, you
can only do what you can do. And
one thing I learned and it may
sound a little harsh, but the
world will still keep turning
whether or not you do what you
do. It will still go on, it will
still keep moving without you
doing the thing or with you
doing the thing.
Right. And that's very humbling
experience. There's a couple of
there's, it's kind of a double
edged thing. One, it's a very
humbling experience, because
you're like, Well, I guess why
do anything right, you know,
like, do you think the world is
going to? But in the end, the
flip side of that, though, is
that what a relief? Yeah, what a
relief that you don't carry the
burden of the whole entire world
on your shoulders like you think
you do? Right? You know, yes,
I'm not responsible for every
thing and every body. And when
we draw that boundary and say,
you know, I've once had somebody
say to me, you know, oh, so you
can't be human. Right? Can you
be human in your business?
Right? Because I, when I was
starting this business out, I
just felt like I had to be
available all the time to
people. And I had, it was, it's
hard for me to set boundaries,
because I tend to put other
people's needs above my own. And
that was the way I was sort of
brought up. And so I had to
really do a lot of work to set
those boundaries. And that it's
okay to be human. It's okay. If
somebody reaches out to you. And
you say, I can't No, I can't
even though, you know, I'm here
to help you. There are limits to
such a thing.
I agree. wholeheartedly. I
wanted to just say that. You
talked about boundaries, but I
have boundaries in my firm. So I
as a virtual practice, owner, I
have a reception service, I use
Smith AI. So I don't take on
unannounced phone calls. I don't
do it. And in my intake form, it
says the elf is a virtual firm.
And do you understand that they
do not take unannounced or
unplanned phone calls or Zoom
calls? Do you agree to that? Yes
or no? That's good. Yes or no.
So I let you know from the
beginning, that we do not do on
because in business, there is no
phone call that I can make
within an hour that's going to
change anything from you. I
ultimately work with paperwork,
and bureaucracies and
emergencies. There are no
trademark. This is often what I
tell people. It's like how many
practice areas are there where I
mean, like there really is not a
true there's not a true court.
Yes, there's very few things
that are true emergencies that
you can actually jump in and do.
Right, you know, right
and actually turn the needle and
change the direction or
something. If someone is
utilizing your trademark
infringing and you didn't give
them permission. I gotta draft a
letter anyway. I can't draft I
gotta get the evidence that
they're using it. I had to put
it all together.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I want to I
want to touch on something here
and ask you to go into this a
little bit deeper, though. So it
is it is my belief, my
philosophy and you'll hear about
it if you you know, if you hear
me talk on the podcast or
reading my book.
I probably know what you're
gonna say.
Well, is that you is that the
client? If you don't create a
process, then right at the
beginning and how those clients
come to you, how would their
first interaction with us like
if you don't set boundaries and
create that process? They will
try to fill in the gaps and so
yes, when you have people who
are attorneys You're complaining
about this client or that
client. Now, certainly there are
those who slipped through the
cracks, right. But if you have
so many complaints about that a
lot, it's usually because they
haven't set, they didn't take
control of the process and and
shore up that client's
confidence right from the
beginning, that they've got this
handle. So what happens is, if
you don't do that, you're not
communicating consistently, you
don't have a, you don't have
rules for communication, all
these things, what happens is
you have a client who jumped at
it go well, and this is all kind
of on a on a energetic level,
like people don't even know
consciously. But what's
happening is they'll go, well,
this person really doesn't have
it all together, I need to step
in with my leadership, and
control the process. And so if
you're unhappy, if you're having
a lot of clients you're unhappy
with, I would take a look at
that process. But what I want to
ask you about is, and I, I,
there's a good answer to this,
and I know you're gonna have it
is that you're talking about, on
the one hand, you talk about how
you want to think through the
experience that your client has
with your firm. And then the
other hand, you talk about, I
had a rule that says, you know,
make phone calls, you know, like
don't take on announced calls,
right? So how does that gel? How
does that align for you? Because
I know that you have thought
about your clients experience as
well as your own in setting that
up. So explain to me how you
think that makes for a better
client experience.
It makes for a better client
experience? And this is such a
great question. Because it's
like, how can you say you're
thinking about your client
experience, like you said, when
you don't take their calls when
they call? Because it doesn't
make for better me? It doesn't
make for me as a better
practitioner, if I'm
consistently allowing you to
interrupt me. Because you're not
my only client. If you were my
only client, Lord forbid, I
wouldn't be able to eat, I
wouldn't be able to afford the
tech tools, or my team or
anything all for one client. No,
ma'am. No, sir. No, I can't do
it. So but just because you're
not talking directly to me
doesn't mean that communication
is not happening. And that is
how I bridge the gap. There are
emails and messages that go out
that consistently update the
client, because man nine times
out of 10, the reason why people
are calling you unexpectedly
with random questions and blah,
blah, blah, because they haven't
heard from you. They have no
idea where they are in the phase
of the process. So shored that
up from the beginning, and to
keep down on your calls. And
number two, number two, if you
know that you want to build out
an experience in the client
sector, your client experience
that doesn't necessarily involve
you do like I did. I hired a
Client Experience Manager. Good.
I hired a Client Experience
Manager, and she is doing a
wonderful job. What does she do,
I'll lay it out for you very
briefly. Number one, she follows
up with potential leads. She
calls, people, my clients, every
within 30 days, within the first
three days, you're gonna get a
call from my client experience
manager, just to make sure your
onboarding process is going
good. Make sure you know where
the communication guide is and
your portal. If you have an
email, if you have a question, a
quick question, you click one
button and a send us an email.
If you want to get on the phone,
you click one button, you get
the coordinate the date and time
that works best for you. If you
say I don't want to get on the
phone, I want to see the
question I want to ask her some
questions, you click one button
and you get the coordinate a
virtual call. If you put if you
put the tools in place and guide
the people, they will use it.
And that is how you bridge the
gap to create better boundaries
for you. And set the tone for
your clients. It's all about how
you curate the experience. It's
sort of like when you go to a
high end hotel. It's a curated
experience from the moment you
arrive at that hotel. Whether
you know it or not, they are
guiding you along the path that
they want you to have beyond
until you get in even when you
get in your room. Even when you
get in your room. It's a guided
path on how you can contact
housekeeping room service,
whatever the butler service
concierge service wherever you
stand because everybody money a
little bit different. So So it's
one of those things, right? You
get to do that in your firm, you
get to be the curator, the BER
guests, you get to do all of
that. And that's the beauty of
having your own firm. So I say
how to do it is set the tone.
And don't just say oh, you can't
reach me but still can have
communication things going out.
I have update emails going out.
I have updated videos. I'm very
into video messaging. If you're
not a lawyer doing video
messaging. This is your cue to
start doing video messaging. We
live in a world where people are
consuming tiktoks and live In 10
seconds or less, and their
attention span is is gone. So if
you send in those long paragraph
type emails, you are missing the
mark, when your clients that
long paragraph email could
probably be broken down into a
one minute, two minute video,
and you could put captions. And
the reason why I say that is
because everybody learns and
comprehends data, totally
different. Everybody learns
differently. So if you have a
client who reads make sure you
have transcription service, so
they can follow along, and still
put paragraphs under the video
message if you need to. But if
you have an auditory learner,
they can hear your voice, and
they can comprehend what you're
saying, right. And then if you
have a user that needs to click
and do things, they are clicking
the video, they are interacting
with it. So you're capturing all
the learning styles. So I'm
leaning back on my experience
when I worked for this, our
local school district, and I was
around teachers all the time,
and I got to learn how people
learn. And when you when you
study that, and you understand
that you navigate different.
Right, right, right, I actually
saw on your website, something I
thought was really clever. And I
liked it a lot, is that you had
a video, you have a YouTube
channel where you create videos,
but you had a video embedded in
your website. And you were I
don't know, if you're sitting in
your car, it looks like you were
but you were saying you're
you're basically saying, you
know, the the number one, you
know, you're taking questions
from your prospective clients
and clients. When you said
somebody asked me what the best
piece of advice was that I ever
had. And you gave two or three
pieces of advice that you had
gotten that you thought were
great. And I thought that is
such a wonderful thing to have
on your website website. Because
in today's environment, people
want to feel like they know you
personally, yes. And you for you
to share that personal sort of
experience where instead of just
answering their questions, well,
here's what you need to do. If
you're thinking of getting a
trademark. You've went into, you
know, here's let's, that's good.
That's a good question. Because
you work with a lot of business
owners I do. And they who are
always mean, you know, this, I
know this as entrepreneurs and
business owners, we're always
looking for some good advice,
right? always that way. So I
call it golden nuggets, right?
So look for those gold nuggets
every year. Yes. Oh, aha moment.
And I just thought that was
really a great thing that you
did on your site, because it was
so real and so authentic and
personal. And without being too
personal, you know, is there's a
fine line, do you know what I
mean? Like, they don't
understand like you can be, you
can reveal who you are as a
person, without air and all your
dirty laundry. Like there's a
lot of people
agree with it. I agree with you.
There's Yes, there are some
practitioners where I know a
little bit too much about what's
going on on the other side. But
I will say there is definitely a
fine line with managing social
media and what to share and
whatnot this year. One of the
key things that I do is I try my
best to be real and honest and
let you know that, hey, I'm
having a bad day. And this is
the only things that I got to do
today. And I sometimes I call it
my daily log, when I first
reactivated my practice, if you
look at some of my feed it to
say May 9 2001 only got to do
this only got to do that get
stressed out to get that boom,
or close the good client today
close a great deal today. Very
excited since a client good. I'm
very big on a curated
hospitality experience and an
advisory experience with
businesses. Because I think
that's the missing element with
a lot of business law
practitioners. You're not you
just it's not just creating the
forms or the documents that they
need to govern their business.
Give them the actual strategy on
how to navigate the path or the
business that they want. And I
think that's the missing element
that I provide because of the
experiences I had since I was 14
Being around business owners,
right. I've been around this. I
tell everybody if your family at
a young age starts a business
you got to business you the
employee, you the Secretary,
you'd admin staff and finance
that you'd go for you everything
you put you to work when you're
new are working honey, but you
know at the time, I had to
navigate a customer experience
with other other companies at a
young age on how to migrate
problems and how to do you know
at an early age, I'm in high
school, dealing with our summer
our employees and the issues
that come with that and all of
this how As cultivated and
experience on how me how I
navigate right now, how I
navigate right now, there's
pretty much nothing that I you
can say that is going on in your
business that I hadn't seen. You
don't have any money, you loan
capital, you're you behind on
your bills, you have equipment
failures, you had staff walk out
on you, you like that
everybody's sick. Like it
happened.
That is the nature of business.
That is the nature of business,
one of the things that I have
told my clients, because I have
so many here are really just
amazing. And they're so
inspirational, they build these
wonderful businesses. But then
this whole great resignation,
great Resharper, great, clear,
whatever you want to call it,
right? Really threw some for a
loop. And I would, you know, I
just remind them, if you plan on
having a business for 1020 30
years, you people are going to
come and go. It's not like, you
know, what we remember from, you
know, grandparents, for a lot of
people, parents, for others,
where you get a job, and you
stay in that job for a year
working for that company for
years, and then you retire
difficult watch. Now people move
every few years, so they can get
some get pay raises. So as a
business owner, you have to stop
letting it take you on this
emotional roller coaster every
time that happens. And so you
get to a point and really the
only way to sort of overcome
that reaction is to just have it
happen over and over again. So
the universe is like teaching
you, you know, like, Okay, you
need to be a little tougher,
because think about you and your
experience with the different
attorneys that you have all of
that taught you. Okay, I'm still
gonna keep doing what I'm doing.
I have two people out
there, right? Because I got
bills, I got mortgage, right. So
that's what I always say is, I
guess lower. What's happening
around me I got bills to pay. So
I should
do I should do.
And it gets you to think
creatively about
it does it does lack of
resources is the breeding ground
for innovation. So this is when
you can come up with your best
ideas when you don't have as
many resources, right. So one of
the key things that I heard you
say you were like, don't when
people come and go. But one of
the key things as an owner, a
business owner of any type,
whether you're in law, whatever,
when you interview people, ask
them what their goals are, and
see how you can help them
facilitate that be a conduit for
the next level, because you can
set the tone for them in a way
to where they're leaving, won't
be as unexpected for you, you
will anticipate it at the
beginning. Guys, you can ask
them ask them Hey, what do you
what not? Then where do you see
yourself in five years? Crap?
No, just be talked to people.
What do you want to do? Always,
always say, What do you want to
be when you grow up? What does
what is a perfect day look like?
Like what was it learn the
interests of people like on my
team? My my, my right hand, my
operator. He likes marine
biology things. In a law firm.
He likes marine biology things
right? How do I know this?
Because I opened my mouth and
asked,
right? Sure what interests you
showed interest in
and actually understand, like he
started with my firm. And within
two weeks, he asked, he said
attorney and are saying my
brother is getting married. And
I really I said great. When is
the wedding, I'm gonna ship him
something I should to give to
his brother. He'd only been with
my firm for two weeks, it blew
his mind. But that's the type of
cultivation of relationship and
the threading that I want people
to have. When you interact with
me, I send cards in the mail, I
send random I stalk some of my
clients or potential clients,
because they follow me on social
media, I may send you a card
that says I saw you had a bad
day. I hope this makes it I hope
there's a little treat brighten
today just a little bit
something. Again, my core
pillars seen supported and
empowered. That's how I do it.
And you don't have to have a
huge pipeline in order to
generate a lot of money to make
that happen. You have to make
sure people are seeing and
support it. And that is since so
much value I give
for your clients and prospective
clients as well as it does for
your team. But it's for your
team as well. A lot of people
don't, you know, look at their
team as being as valuable if not
more valuable than your clients.
Richard Branson. I wrote a whole
book about this and about how he
in Virgin Airlines he puts team
first he says they're my number
one not my customers, because
without them this doesn't work.
Yep. You You have to learn that
at an early early stage of your
business, your systems and
processes are everything, but
the people who are pushing the
levers are more. Because you
cannot push all the levers in
your business, you cannot, you
cannot do every little tweak in
your business and be successful.
If anybody tells you something,
oh, I'm a true solo is just me,
and you are limited, you're
limited in some way, I don't
know, if you may make more money
than me and my firm, because you
may charge more. That's the
difference. But your client
experience is not mine. Or, you,
you, you feel like oh, I don't
need all that tech stuff, I'm
just gonna do what I do, you're
gonna get left behind. Because
the world that we're living in
is a world of convenience. Now,
we have apps where we can press
two to three buttons and food is
at our
door. Food is at our door, that
doesn't get any better than
that. Except for the wine
delivery services.
I mean, they have those two
drinks, the drinks, or something
that the app or something.
Recently, I saw that reason I
thought that was interesting. We
don't drink here. But you know,
I just thought what a great
concept. You're what all the
stuff you've been talking about,
is really about your brand and
how you how you're different
from other firms, because I
think that's really important
for people to hear and
understand is that they can
create whatever kind of
experience, they want to create
further clients and do it in
whatever way that may not be the
way you would do it. Right. But
it's so important to really be
clear on what kind of experience
you want your clients to have.
Because that is that's your
brand. And that's what people
associate with you is like I had
this experience or that
experience. And that shows up
not just in your personal
interactions with them, but in
all of their interactions with
your business. And I think
that's a huge distinction. For
for people who are wanting to
scale their business and grow as
an actual business, is we have
to separate the business from
the individual people have an
experience with you as a person
is one thing, but what do you
want your business? What do you
want their experience with your
business to be because it might
not always be you. And that I
think is part of part of the
challenge for a lot of people is
how do I translate my core
values? And express them in this
business without it having to be
me delivering the goods? Right?
Yeah, I'd say you set the tone
early. And you always think with
the end in mind. Right? I always
think with the end in mind. So
if you were one of my consulting
clients, I will always ask you,
what does out look like? What
does out feel like? When do you
know is ready? You ready to walk
out that door? And then I have
them describe for me? What does
that feel like? How when do you
know? And then we work backwards
from there to ensure that the
things start getting in place,
right?
To explain what you mean by out
what is outfield? Like, tell me
tell me what you mean by that.
When I say out? I mean like I
would I've had clients who say I
want to pivot to more speaking
engagements, I don't want to be
the practitioner in my business.
I don't want to be the one
pushing the levers. That's an
out for them. Like they don't
want to shifting out in that
next phase or stage of their
business. There's some people
who actually just want to exit
the business. And I said, that's
fair enough. What does exit look
like? Tell me what is what is
out? When I say out? I mean,
you're not doing what you're
doing. You're out outside of
doing what you're doing right
now. That's what I mean. That
transformation, that trance when
we were gonna train that moment
of transformation when you know,
transformed.
Exactly. And some people say,
Well, I don't really know. Okay,
well tell me what a day it feels
like where you don't feel what
is a non stressful day feel
like, Oh, well, I wake up and I
get my kids or I sit and I drink
tea for an hour I read I
meditate. Okay, but I listened
to what they say. But then I
listened to what they're not
saying. They're not picking up
work. They hadn't answered the
email, they haven't answered the
phone call. So some type of way
we got to set up some systems to
where that day is a reality.
Right? They're not the ones
pushing the levers. So people
will tell you what they want.
You just have to listen. And
then you go in as the
orchestrator or the consultant
and you say, Hey, you told me
the day looks like you have an T
for an hour and a half. What
time a day is this? Okay, that's
NS the advisor you think and
that's a core business hour.
What system or tool are we going
to have in place that's going to
shore up them not having to
answer the phone or email, a
Slack message or something
something has to be in place. I
call it the Hoover Dam. If you
ever been in a Hoover Dam, a
long time ago, you they would do
a tour and you would see water
dripping from the walls. And
some people will put gum or
whatever to try to see if the
water is going to do things. And
that's what it's like in your
business, right? If you are
working on one hole, another one
is going to spring. You can't.
So we have to figure out how
we're going to plug that next
water leak. How are we going to
do that in order to make sure
your Hoover Dam doesn't explode?
Right. Right. Right. Are you?
So with through
your law firm, you really a lot
of the things you're talking
about are not what attorneys
will consider legal advice. No,
this is business consulting
piece. Business owners in
business advice and outcome. So
it takes a little step beyond
that
it does and and I think that is
one of the key differentiators
of my business law practice. And
that is what cultivate a
learning experience to to allow
the client to achieve whatever
goal they have said, It's not my
goal is your goal, you tell me,
and then we plug up the holes,
so the Hoover Dam doesn't
explode on you. Because in in
the world of business is
overwhelming. It is so
overwhelming. So much is going
on. I gather data. And I'm like,
No, we're gonna calm down a
little bit. We're gonna calm
down a little bit and figure out
what you want to focus on. I
don't know what I want to focus
on. Okay, what's important? What
lights you up? What makes you
smile? What makes you not be
stressed? My kids? Okay, what is
it? What does that look like? I
want to spend more time with my
kids. Okay, what are we doing
that's preventing you from
spending time with your kids?
Ah, with every girl. So now we
know what we got to fix.
I also I also asked the
question, what I'm doing and
getting people to think about
their core values, I asked what
pisses you off? What makes you
angry? Because when you know,
because a lot of times people
can tell you negative stuff when
they could tell you the positive
things because like, it's like
something like 85% of our brain
is devoted to negative thinking.
So something like that. And I
always think about what, what,
what really grinds my gears, you
know, what's the thing that bugs
me, because that tells me what
it is what boundary I have there
and what it is, that's important
to me enough to make me mad if
somebody doesn't do it. And
sometimes things can come out
that way. So I love you talking
about tapping into your emotion
and how you get that because
it's hard with the one
disadvantage I think we have, I
love all the social media, and
all the tech tools and all the
things that creates such an
advantage for business owners
now. But I think one
disadvantage is is how difficult
it is to drown out the noise,
and how and to hear your own
thoughts. And I remember when I
first started, it was after I
started my law firm, and I had I
had I walked away from it, I
first law firm. And I really
went through a period of
personal crisis. And I was
getting a lot of advice from a
lot of people. And I just made a
decision that my inner voice was
so weak, I couldn't hear it.
Because I had had so much coming
at me for so long. And was in
such a state of mental fog, like
you talk about that I had to get
really quiet and go deep inside
myself to hear what it is that I
wanted or what I could do. And
it what did cut, it wasn't
immediate, it was a little tiny.
It was like that little tiny
blue flame, you know, hadn't got
a chance to get big enough. And
I get to be a big orange flame
is like I can just feel this
little blue flame inside of me.
That kind of said, Okay, I think
this is yeah, and then I just
was like, putting oxygen on that
little blue flame to get it to
get a little bigger, a little
bigger, and like, almost over
time, and then you get a lot
more clarity. You people often
think clarity comes from, I
gotta be clear before I do the
thing. You got to do the thing.
And
when you do that, that's it.
That's it right there. But it
really
is it that failure is the thing
or that contrast is the thing
that gives you the clarity of
what the next thing is you want
like you said with your five
appointments that you didn't
close that will give you more
freebies people,
no more freebies. And I think it
all correlates to understanding
what you want and what you don't
want. And you can want the Sun
Moon and stars if you want. You
can want the Sun Moon and stars.
We just have to set a path for
you to go to the stars first the
moon first or the sun, you
direct
and enjoy the journey. Enjoy the
journey.
Oh gosh. Yes. And have some
great snacks along the way.
Yeah, that would be a great line
to end on. except for I have one
more question I wanted to ask
you, and that is that you are
the podcast guest podcast queen.
And I've seen you work in the
circuit, and getting on a lot of
different podcasts. And I've
been loving watching your growth
and your journey along the way.
And all that, can you share? I
know a lot of people, a lot of
attorneys probably would love to
do that again. But they really
don't know. Like, what that
first step is, they don't know
what what to do. So tell give us
a little gold nugget or insight
into what, what inspired you to
do this? And also, how did you
go about it?
Okay, so I have been a
connoisseur for podcast since
2005 2006. Early, early when we
had those are early. And then by
like 2011, I got back into it, I
got like really back into
podcasting. And then I created a
podcast with another lady
lawyer. And it was called
professional use only. And it's
still up. So if you want to go
listen to it. But one thing I
learned by doing that is what I
didn't want if I was to go on
podcasting, and so when you are
looking to appear more podcast
actually consumed the podcast
that you want to go on. It was
through that that by creating a
podcast, we got pitches and and
people requesting to be on a
show with language that didn't
even correspond with our
audience that didn't correspond
to what we were actually our
messaging at all. And so if you
want to be on podcast, consume
the podcast determine whether or
not you can actually add value
to the audience. And not just I
want to go on the show because I
want to go on the show. What
value are you going to instill
in that audience? Right, because
with podcasting, we have so many
opportunities to listen. And and
if you're not giving value,
you're just going up that their
sale, nobody's going to listen
to that give value. So what
value extension Are you going to
have? That's what the core, what
am I going to give to an
audience, then determine the
type of audience that I want? Go
find the podcast that align with
the value in the audience that
you have, and then figure out go
on that person's that podcast
website, or see if they have an
email and genuine say, Hey, I
listened to Episode 12. I took
away this. I really, really
enjoyed this from that. And I am
blank. And I currently serve or
assist blank. And I think I can
add value to your audience this
way. Can you share what the
process is to appear? Thank you
so much.
That's beautiful. That's a
beautiful, beautiful aquifer. I
was taking notes on that. So
they can copy and paste from the
transcript for that.
But but that's the formula.
That's it. Yeah, that's
wonderful advice. And because
I've recently put out a podcast
episode, just couple weeks ago
on despacho,
you did how to be a good guest
on a podcast. And I was like,
yes, sorry.
I am just I am shocked by how
many people and I know what it
is. A lot of people hire PR
firms, they do get them spots on
podcast, and I and I understand
that I believe me, I'm a huge
advocate of outsourcing. But you
at least need to be clear with
your PR firm that we need to
have a game plan here which ones
I need to be prepared. I need to
listen so I know what I can you
know what that podcast is about?
Because I get um, you know, for
dentists for real estate agents
or people all over, you know,
thinking all different kinds of
things. I'm like, they never
listen to my podcast. But if you
write me and you're like, Oh, I
listen, your podcast, I love
this and that, you know, I'm a
fan, you're gonna go, it's gonna
go a long way with me because I
put so much work into the
podcast that it's not just going
out into the black void, and
nobody's listening to it. So I
think it's so important if you
want to be a guest on the
podcast, but I and I think it
may be a little addicting
because, you know, once you
start being a guest on podcast,
and you're talking you're having
conversations, it's so fun to
have conversations with is
yourself. You know, we're we're
having you're able to talk shop
and, you know, share our
experiences and just getting to
know each other better. It's a
great way. But a lot of work
goes into having your own
podcast is as I'm sure you know.
Oh, yes. And I have. I have some
other ideas and things coming
down the pike. So I hope your
audience follows along on the
journey with me. As the
podcasting space is definitely a
great space to be in and I value
a lot of a lot of what he brings
in the value is so so important.
Yeah, it's so fun. Well, thank
you so much for being here. I've
enjoyed Our conversation as much
as I knew I would. Why don't you
tell everybody how they can
connect with you if they want to
do that,
you can connect with me on Al
Gore's internet. By finding me
on Instagram, I've spent a good
portion of my time there. My IG
name is Esquire for four. I am
on Facebook under my first name,
and the link will be in the show
notes. I'm on LinkedIn, connect
with me there. And if you are
looking to have some
intellectual property or
business law questions, go to my
website, which is Andersen law.
fl.com. And I have resources
there from my blog, you can get
connected to my YouTube channel.
Anything you may need, if you
just want to shoot me an email,
I respond. I'm very open. I'm
not closed off. No question is a
dumb question. And I'll do my
best to help
you. Wonderful, thank you. And
you are everywhere you are how
many presidents so? They
shouldn't have any trouble. And
you have a very unique name.
Yes, I do. Google.
Yes, you can go Google me and I
will come up. I'm the first and
only thing.
Thanks so much for being here. I
really enjoyed it.
I did too. Thank you for having
me.
