Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

Unknown: Hi everyone, and
welcome to the wealthy woman

lawyer podcast. I am super,
super excited that I have Winnie

son here today with me. I've
been looking forward to speaking

with her when he is one of the
most followed financial advisors

on social media with something
like 25 billion followers or

something. So she's gonna tell
us the exact number. And also,

if you are on LinkedIn at all,
you have not seen Whitney she's

on there on a live show on
LinkedIn of almost daily. I'm

not sure if it is daily. I'm
sure he will tell us that his

daily but I've see I see a daily
when I'm on there, and I'm super

excited to have her here. She is
also a co founder of Sun group,

make sure you get this in the
right order subgroup wealth

partners. She's the co founder
and managing director. She is a

financial advisor with more than
17 years experience is also on

the CNBC financial advisory
council. She's the podcast host

of LinkedIn networks when he
sons yes factor if you're not

following that, do start
following that because it is a

great podcast. And she has been
cited interviewer quoted in more

places than I can name CNBC, Fox
News, Forbes, Wall Street

Journal, New York Times, and
many, many, many more. So we're

excited to have her here because
it got lots of questions today.

So welcome, Whitney. And that
was a little long winded intro,

but welcome.

And I am so honored and excited
to be here with you, Davina,

thank you so much for having me.

Good, good, good. So let's dive
in with you telling us a little

bit about some group Well,
partners. So we have an idea of

what your business is.

Sure. Thank you. So we are a
financial services wealth

management firm. Our
headquarters is based here in

Southern California, we do serve
clients nationwide. And

actually, globally, we have
clients a lot offshore as well.

And I've been a financial
advisor now for goodness, I

think about 22 years, and so is
a firm that was started by two

financial advisors who are best
friends. So Brandon is my

longtime business partner, we've
been business partners for 22

years, I think it is. And we're
like brother and sister. And we

have a very diverse community of
professionals on our team, just

the nicest of human beings. And
so, I don't know, I think it's

such a gift. But we are able to
help people from all walks of

life from like, people who just
started investing to companies

to who have gone through that
process of needing to go public,

and executives at major Fortune
500 companies, like we basically

help them manage their money so
that they can do what they do

best in their own respective
lives.

Wonderful. So I am always
curious, when somebody winds up

in a profession, like financial
advisor or lawyer, it's not

something that you know, most of
us think when we're little kids,

I'm gonna grow up to be a
financial advisor. So tell us

how your journey into this
profession came about?

What did it mean, this wasn't a
good question. And you know, I

love that you kind of, like
framed it that way, you know,

not all of us thought we were
going to be attorneys on I

thought we were going to be
financial advisors. And

certainly being a financial
adviser was nowhere on my radar

at all, and actually sort of
fell into place somewhat

accidentally, just like many of
you, you know, really worked

hard during school was about get
excited about getting into good

colleges. And you know, it's
interesting, because my parents

who are immigrants from Taiwan,
you know, they didn't have a lot

of money coming here, but they
worked really hard. They saved

as much as they could. And they
wanted to send my sister and I

to college. Well, about three
months before I was actually

about to leave for college. My
mom pulls me aside and she's one

of those parents where like,
she's like the typical, like,

tiger mom, she's like, really
aggressive. And she's like, you

know, if you were to go to
battle, you would go with mom

because she could push through
like waves of scary people. But

she was actually pulled me aside
and they could see that, like,

her eyes were like glow shiny.
And I call the shiny eyeball

because my mom doesn't cry. And
she said, You know, I know you

worked really hard. I know you
got into good schools. But

remember that project that Dad
and I invested in that was

supposed to help pay for your
college and your sister's

college? Well, we're going
bankrupt, because the partners,

then we got pulled. So that was
sort of my first lesson. So I

ended up you know, definitely a
ski changing my decision of

where I was going to go to
school and of going to school

here and stay at UCLA, which is
fortunately really great school.

But during that time, it wasn't
just like thinking about how to

pay for college because I do
didn't know I had financial aid

or student loans. But I was
actually more concerned about

helping my parents keep the
house. And what that meant

because my dad felt completely
empty because he felt like he

felt his family. So it was
really, sort of that's really

how everything started. And then
so when I was at school, I

started my own business while in
college, actually, and the

television production space. And
then at an during hiatus is

where you know, you didn't have
much filming there in time I

started taking the financial
planning program at UCLA at

night, hoping to give that
information will help my parents

make better financial decisions.
So it was purely accidental. And

it's almost like because of a
bad financial experience that

led me to this space. i This was
definitely not on my radar at

all. I was a poli sci major. I'm
guessing some of you who are

watching probably may have been
a poli sci major as well. So

that was sort of the direction I
was going, I went, I joined a

tip television show to do legal
research because I was thinking,

you know, typical Asian family,
you only get three choices in

life. You're either a doctor or
engineer, an attorney. And I

didn't want to be a doctor
definitely didn't have what it

took to be an engineer. So like,
Okay, well default, I guess I'll

be an attorney. And I like to
read but they didn't. Yeah,

definitely wasn't smart enough
to go into your route.

That is such a compelling story.
And something that I think those

kinds of stories shape a lot of
people's lives, you know, what

their parents what happens in
their parents lives, often

shapes what we do in our life.
And we may not know it at the

time, but it is planting seeds.
And it's often something that,

you know, you just the least the
thing that you would not expect,

right. But to be able to help
family members is is a really

compelling reason to do this. So
tell me kind of how what what

was your first job? As a
financial advisor? Like did you

immediately decide that you
wanted that you were going to

start your own business in that?
Or was it something where you

had a another kind of job and
mentors are and it wasn't, you

know, and then something led you
starting your own business?

Sure. So you know, at UCLA, you
know, I was lucky I, as soon as

I started school, I took on so
many jobs because I wanted to

help, you know, financially, my
family. And one of the jobs I

got was a legal research job at
a television show called Jones

and jury starring Star Jones.
And it was a brand new show, I

thought I was doing legal
research. But as soon as they

got in the first day, they said
we need help on the audience. So

I ended up going to the
audience. And I wasn't even like

a true, you know, hire at that
point. I was an intern. And so

my job assumed got promoted to a
position called page. A page is

basically an usher that walks
people from the exit to the

entrance to sit in the audience.
We collect gum, and then we walk

people to the restroom. And then
we would you know, repeat that.

And so I did that for some time.
And then someone said, while

UCLA you're a really good page,
or a really good audience page

and say thank you. And then so
So long story short, is

eventually one of the producers
said why don't you create your

own audience production company.
And if you do, I'll send you my

shows, I'll send you my daughter
shows. And you know, and that at

that time, I was about 1920
years old. And I started a

television audience production
company, and the apartment of my

college apartment, and had a fax
machine. That's how long ago it

was. And then we grew it. I was
still in school full time. And

we grew this business to the
second largest in the United

States. I was moving 1000s of
people to different television

shows, including Americans
Funniest Home Videos and shows

shooting in jeopardy and wheel
of fortune, and MTV pilots and

Regis and Kathie Lee, when they
filmed in Los Angeles, all these

different shows. And that's how
I started. And then my parents,

I could sense that my mom was
always sort of disappointed that

I had gone and get gotten a good
education as working in

television. I don't know why she
thought that but so I felt like

I needed to like learn financial
planning, you know, to help them

anyway. And during that process,
one of my professors in the

Financial Planning Program
tapped me and said, you know,

Smith, Barney is doing a hiring
process and you need to go,

you're ready. They're doing a
recruiting process program. So I

went through the recruiting
program, and let me tell you who

everybody look like Barbie and
Ken, everyone was so beautiful,

like a size zero. And men were
like six feet four. And I

remember telling my boyfriend
who's now my husband, I said,

Oh, this is this. I remember
telling him after I said this,

you know, I was sold in the
wrong space. You know, he had

these beautiful Suzy look
gorgeous. And here I was like

really very, very awkward
sitting in the corner. And you

know, we had submitted our
resumes and whatnot. And when

they were done, and there were
saying like, you know, you'll be

lucky if you get hired here, and
basically this and that and And

you know, sometimes we throw
spaghetti on the wall and hope

like someone sticks. But most of
you will fail in this industry.

But if you really want to blow,
so I remember thinking, Okay,

well, this wasn't work for me.
But luckily, I've got a TV

production company, mom, we'll
just have to deal with this,

right? So I'm walking out
leaving, and they say, Mr.

Mason, can we can can you stay
with us for a minute? And I

remember thinking, like,
literally, I was like, oh, no, I

must have parked in the wrong
spot like this is really bad. So

they took me to this conference
room. And it was like, literally

this huge, beautiful mahogany
conference room. They sat there,

I felt like hours, but it was
probably just like 10 minutes.

And then like, literally six or
seven men and beautiful suits

with cufflinks walked in. And
basically they said, you know,

we're not letting you leave this
room until you sign with us. And

that's what happened. And I was
thinking myself, why would you

like, why would you want to hire
me? And they say that they kept

asking me about my TV, business
and how I found people. And I

think they thought that I was
working with celebrities, which

I told them I wasn't. But I
think they thought that my

network was, you know, the who's
who of the entertainment space,

which it wasn't I was just
moving people to the audience,

but they didn't know that. And
that's how it

happened. Wow. So So how long
did you stay there? Did you did

you go from there to opening
your own business? Or in the in

the wealth space? Or did you go
someplace else first?

No, I was at Smith Barney the
whole time was my first firm.

And then Smith Barney, which was
part of Citigroup at the time,

then eventually got bought out
by Morgan Stanley. And at that

time, Morgan Stanley, it was a
very different culture. And my

manager, who was my mentor, and
really helped me take it to a

next level, he actually left
because he couldn't handle

working under Morgan Stanley.
And at that point, I knew it was

time to look at different
options. And fortunately, had

done a really good job. I Smith,
Barney. So like I at that point,

I was already in the corner
office, I was like the youngest

person or an office. And we
didn't definitely didn't have an

issue of who wanted us. It's
just where we wanted. And I had

already actually decided to go
to UBS, a huge offer, one of the

largest all cash offers that
they had offered at the time.

And then, but then my manager,
my previous manager, he said,

You know, when he we're looking
at LPL, and if you're interested

in going there, I might actually
go with you. And I thought the

prospect of going with someone
who really helped elevate my

career was meaningful to me. And
you know, this was somebody who

supported me when I might, when
I got pregnant for the first

time I had my first child, like
made sure that it was a good

environment for me to grow my
business. This was someone who

like, you know, who didn't look
at me as just being female,

Asian, but actually looked at me
fairly compared to other male

financial advisors. And so I
felt like he was someone I could

try. So, so he said, he's
looking, so I took it very

seriously. So I went. And we met
with LPL and they, I said, I

really think I can mark it
because marketing is my passion.

And he said that the firm said,
yeah, we'll support that. So we

went, and my manager, he was
with us for probably about six

months. He's like, okay, you
know, I think I'm just gonna

retire. So, so we're still
really, really close to this,

Dave, I'm like, John, I came
here for you, and then you

leave. But he's like, you'll be
fine. And so you know. So the

rest is history. So we've been
now through LPL, they're our

back office, right? We do own
our own firm, we do run

everything ourselves, or we
handle everything or our clients

and whatnot. But they they've
been just sort of our back

office partner, which has been,
you know, it's been, I don't

know, now over a decade. So we
are Smith, Barney slash Morgan

Stanley for over a decade. And
then from there on, we left an

Instagram firm,

wonderful, wonderful. That's
such a that is such a

fascinating journey and story, I
want to talk about something

that you have, and this may be
because of your background in

television and sort of going
going in that direction. And

you're sort of passionate love
for marketing. But I think

something that you've done
really, really well that a lot

of women law firm owners are
going to be intrigued about and

curious about is how you have
built your network and become so

visible and such a sought after
resource for these publications

of the shows. When they're
looking for some an expert on a

topic to talk about wealth and
money. What what kinds of things

do you think that lay the
foundation for that for you? And

may there's something that has
evolved into what it has evolved

into today for you?

Sure. You know, it's so
interesting, I'll share this

with you because when people
will say like wow, you know, you

know, I saw you on a today show
or so I on CNBC they're like,

you know, I want that guy who's
your publicist. And it's

interesting because I'm actually
most people don't really know

this, but I'm actually an
extreme introvert. I'm so much

of an introvert that like, for
the first 12 years of my life in

elementary school to middle
school, I pretty much didn't

speak. And so my parents would
have these meetings with

teachers. And I think she's a
good student, but she just

doesn't talk. And I was always
afraid that people saw me that

they, if they heard me that
actually see me. And that was

like, so funny. And I remember
when LinkedIn, and Facebook and

you know, I think even before
that social media came out, my

husband says, you know, you
should do this social media

thing, because it's actually,
you know, could be good for

business. But the financial
industry didn't embrace social

media. And so I said, No, no,
no, I can't do that. I have

nothing to share, what am I
going to talk about? But then

eventually, Smith, Barney
allowed us to do LinkedIn, I was

like, being the good student,
now good employee, if they said

you should do LinkedIn, I should
do LinkedIn. So I started doing

LinkedIn. And as quickly saying,
like, got Malte a, you know, a

eight figure client off LinkedIn
really, really, relatively

quickly. And that's what I've
opened my eyes about the

potential of marketing and
whatnot. And the thing is, you

know, I always said, if, if I
could just bottle my clients up

what they said about us, right,
it was what that said about me

as a financial advisor. My
clients would love me so much

like, I remember, when I was
expecting my first child, my

office was like, completely
covered with baby gifts, like

all the time, and my manager
said, when you know, this kind

of stuff, you should have this
at home, you shouldn't have this

substantive work. I'm John, I
didn't order this stuff. This is

for my clients. And he's like,
what your clients are like, I

didn't even tell them. I think
they just found out from my

assistant that I'm, like,
pregnant. And you know, that's

how it kind of, and then that's
when I realized, like, wow,

we're doing something really
special. And our clients really

feel different when when they're
with me, if I could just bottle

that up, I wouldn't have to do
summers as much I wouldn't have

to, well, this is already post I
when I built my business cold

calling. So I didn't cold call
this much. But I didn't do the

work so hard for prospecting. So
then I recognized that, well,

you know, at the time, Bernie
Madoff was on the news and the

Lehman Brothers issues were in
the news, and Merrill Lynch, all

these bad things were happening.
And I said, If I don't tell my

story, someone else is going to
tell my story. So that's when I

really started leveraging social
media. And when I left, Morgan

Stanley, I remember the manager
who had taken over the Morgan

Stanley Niners who said, you
know, when he, I hope your

husband knows what you're doing
today, because you had just

committed career suicide, you
will, you will die. This is over

for your career. And I remember
being so scared going down that

elevator that day, leaving
Morgan Stanley, and wondering

how I was going to make this
work. And I remember telling

myself, but you know what, my
clients love me. And I'm going

to find a way to get this out.
So when I was obviously meeting

with the different firms,
fortunately, I had already

gotten commitment from LPL do,
they actually hired me a

publicist from day one, and that
really sort of opened my eyes

about what a publicist could do,
because I had never worked with

one before. And, and I recognize
that you know, what we, as

business owners have a
responsibility not only to do

great work for our clients,
that's the number one thing. But

the second thing that we have a
responsibility to them for, is

to get the word out about our
business. Because if we don't

continue to build our practices,
then we're not going to be any

good for our existing clients.
And we're not going to be any

good for our team. And if we're
not in practice, because we fail

to continue to build our
businesses. That's why us so our

responsibility as business
owners, if we really care about

our clients, really proud of our
teams, we spent a good amount of

time building our brand, and,
and making sure that even when

we're with our kids, or we're
with a client, that we still

have entities out there that are
attracting and Brill and

building brands will bring us
more business. So that's sort of

like was my aha moment. So I
went all in eventually, with

social media and and that, and I
will tell you, it took me three,

three or four experiences before
finding my perfect publicists.

And as I shared with you, I have
had the same business partner

for 22 years, I've been married
24 years, you know, obviously

different people. But I am the
type of person who retains

relationships for a very long
time. So to go through these

different publicists means that
it was just not a good fit. I

finally found someone who is who
I'm with now, who will be my

publicist for life. But you need
to find someone who believes in

you because there's going to be
days that you don't believe in

yourself. And so they're going
to challenge you, they're going

to make you better, and they're
going to open doors for you that

maybe you couldn't open for
yourself, and that's who you

want on your team because I
think building your brand

independently is doable, but
very, very difficult. And I

think no matter how How Alfa or
how successful you are, when you

find that person in your corner,
it will completely change you.

And I think Davina, you've
actually done such a beautiful

job with this already.

Thank you. Thank you so much for
that. I, I think there's there's

so much in what you said that is
very powerful. And I want to

unpack that a little bit. And
one of the things is you said

that first of all, you said you
were very introverted. And I

want to talk about how you sort
of overcame that. Because I know

that is a real stumbling block
for a lot of professional women,

they just, they want to be
behind the scenes doing the work

for their clients, they don't
want to be in front of a camera.

And I know for me, you know, I'm
in it. As anybody listens to

this. Now I'm in my mid 50s. So
it's it's not fun being in front

of the camera, when you're in
your mid 50s. And you're looking

at all the young people out
there doing things, and it can

be a little uncomfortable. And
fortunately, I'm curious enough

about other people that it's a
driving factor for me to have

conversations with other people.
But when you are introverted, it

can be a stumbling block for
people. And then the other thing

I want to talk about, so I don't
forget, I'm gonna put it out

there for you, is you went
through three or four people.

And I think one of the things
that often happens with women

business owners, and maybe with
men too, I don't know, but but I

know certainly with women
business owners that I work

with, is that sometimes we we
take a failure upon ourselves

when something doesn't work out.
And then we say, Well, that

didn't work out. And maybe we do
one or two, you know, people and

then it doesn't work out and we
go, Well, that doesn't work. And

we cross it off the list. And
oftentimes we see it, whether

we're hiring, we hire somebody
and they quit or they ghost or

they you know, or they work for
a while and then suddenly they

get strange and guess let them
go and they don't fit anymore.

And then we go, you know, I
hired one time and that was

really scary for me, because it
didn't work out. So I must be

bad at it. You know, what kinds
of Did you ever have those

moments when you were on? You
know, Person number two, Person

number three? Or you started
going? Was it me?

Absolutely. So I'm going to ask
answer the publicist question

first. Cuz I think that's the
question I get asked so much. I

don't a lot of interest in that.
So let me tell you this. So, you

know, you're right. We feel
failure. If it doesn't work out,

we think it's us. And so many
times, I felt like it was

especially being an introvert,
you, you overanalyze and you,

you sort of, you know, discount
yourself over and over again.

And I remember my, one of my
earlier published, in fact, I

remember asking him, I said, Do
you think I should do more

social media? Because my husband
thinks I should do more social

media? He said, No, no, no. And
he was similar age to me. So it

wasn't like he was, like, much
older. And he says, no, no, I

just want you to continue to do
print media, traditional media,

I think it's good for you, you
know, don't spend too much money

on social media, I don't think
that's really relevant for you.

And actually, that wasn't why I
left that firm. Because then his

right hand, this was I was
pregnant with I think my second

I had just given birth to my
second child. And you know, when

you have your baby, at the first
few weeks, you can't even see

things straight, right? You
don't even get a chance to

shower sometimes. So one of the
media outlets, a really big

outlet has sent an email to
myself, cc my, my publicist

right hand at the time, and
said, Hey, I want to see if I

can get Winnie back on this as a
state as a radio show, by the

way, and, you know, so you know,
during this, this isn't like TV,

so it's quite easier. And he
says, I want to see if she can

do an interview like this after
we'll have I know, it's last

minute, but whatever. So I
finally saw the email. This was

in plenty of time, by the way.
And I was like, Oh, this is

great. I could do it. But then
my publishers had already

replied all and said, Don't
worry, when you can't do this, I

got someone else for you. And I
was like, you know, I just gave

birth, you have children, you're
a mom, too. And you could have

texted me or call me because you
know, I would have wanted to do

this. So at that point, I
recognized that I needed to find

somebody else because I was just
another number two, her and that

firm, you know, but I think with
with this, I will say this is

like there's always going to be
a lot of people that discount

you and you're gonna go through
this naturally as well. The

first time I was on CNBC, I was
actually sort of a train wreck.

I remember my publicist at the
time has said so, you know, I

reached out to the producer and
asked how you did and they said,

You look the part. You know your
stuff, but there's something

wrong with the way that you
speak. They think there's

something wrong with your
tongue. So I was like, okay, my

20 Some years in life for 30
years. I've never been told

there was something wrong with
the way I spoke in this not only

to after beat discovery, I went
to like speech therapist for a

year. Media coaches for a year
spent so much money trying to

fix myself. Own Need to learn
when I started doing live

streaming myself independently?
That was because growing up, I

learned to speak Chinese before
I spoke English. And so on

television, the Ching, the knees
would come out, right. And so

after Facebook Live came out, I
started teaching myself I was

like practicing doing live
streaming every day. And that's

actually how I fixed myself. So
now people are like, wow, she's

a natural. She's so good on TV.
I'm like, seven or eight years

in the making, but we've got

lots of practice lots of
practice. Yeah, I know, I

definitely you notice all of the
all those quirky things that you

do, and you don't really realize
that you do a camera on you. And

you look at the video and the
sound of your voice. Everybody

hates the sound of their voice,
everybody, when you listen to

recording your voice. You know,
they're like, oh, I don't sound

like that. And it's so it can be
such you know, cognitive

dissonance.

You sound really grateful. But
you gotta say, Oh,

thank you. Well see. Now my view
of that is different. When I

listen to myself, I'm like, oh.
But you know, I think I think

that's the part that for me, I
just, I always think about the

content, I'm sharing the guests
that I have on. And I'm focused,

I try to focus on the message.
And just hope that people can,

you know, overcome any sort of
weird quirks or if I talk my

hands too much, or whatever it
is that I do. And they can they

can move past that and focus on
the content and the guests. And

when you focus on the content
for me that that is what I've

had to learn to do to overcome
the anxiety that comes with, you

know, because it's not about me,
right? It's about what we're

talking about, and that we're
helping people that we're

sharing. You are you're you
know, you're very attractive

lady. And you mentioned a couple
of times that lay it off. Right.

So you mentioned right, you
mentioned a couple of times

about first of all, I think I
can't believe somebody actually

told you that something was the
death of your career because you

were leaving them and, and you
mentioned being uncomfortable

because you're in this room of
sort of cannon Barbies, and not

feeling like you fit in because
you're Asian, because you're a

woman because you you know
you're introverted. All of those

things are one of those things.
How have you, how have you

learned to use that to your
advantage?

Absolutely. So Dave, I'm so glad
you mentioned that. I mean, I

remember like even when I first
got hired at Smith, Barney, one

of the advisors came into the
office, welcome into the office.

And he goes, Well, the manager
got a great deal hiring you,

because you're a double minority
extra bonus there. And I

remember not knowing what that
meant at 20 something years old.

And so you know, for the longest
time, my clients, hell is

completely diverse, like some
I've had advisors say, Oh, do

you mostly handle the Asian
community? I'm like, Wow,

interesting question. My Asian
clientele makes up probably 10

to 15%. I'm a completely diverse
clientele, which I'm very proud

of my consistency. All my
clients are really, really great

human beings and really great
people, and really hard working.

That's I think the commonality
there. But I think, you know, we

all have our insecurities. my
publicist who I am with right

now, as well, as I have, you
know, some other business

mentors I've had all these years
who have really helped shape me,

I think, and when I was down or
insecure, but they really give

me the confidence. And then
really sort of that pivotal

moment was when I had kids. So
when I had my first child, and I

have three kids, and I think
many of you who have kids can

relate to this. They gave me
that confidence, desire to fight

for myself and to stand up for
myself. I didn't really have

that much of a reason to do that
before they showed up. But now

I'm like, you know, reason
recently, there's been a lot of

you know, since the pandemic law
talk about stop Asian hate

crimes against Asian community
previous Winnie would have not

said much I would have just
stayed current behind the

scenes. This now is different.
Now. I've been I've been doing

some work with CNBC in that
space, I credit a ton of content

with partnered up with LinkedIn
on that. And I think that that

came from, from having kids
from, you know, getting more

comfortable, and also having the
confidence now saying, why not

have so much social media
credibility, and I have so much

street cred. And the numbers
show for themselves that we, I

guess, technically on paper are
very successful. We're award

winning and recognized by
Forbes. And I know in my skin

and I'm a really good human
being. So there's nothing to be

ashamed of. And so I want to
make the world a little bit

better for my kids and the
future generation. So I gotta

stand up and do that. So it's
sort of like it's one of those

aha moments, right? I mean,
nobody can tell you you need to

feel better, but that's how it's
how you You should feel better,

you should be more proud of
yourself. And like, you know, I

still get like, I still cringe
when people say, Well, how do

you feel? Now they're so
successful may not really feel

successful, but I'm happy, you
know? Yeah, so I think is that

mental thing, but I do think you
need to find some reason you, my

publicist, by the way, I gotta
tell you, she's like literally

one of my best friends on the
planet now. She was she was on

TV, and then she became a
publicist. And what she does,

which I love is she only takes
one client, any respective

industry. So like, let's say,
for example, she worked with an

attorney, right? That she would
only have one attorney, she only

has one financial advisor. So
when she like talks to the Today

Show, or she talks to whoever
she talking to about being,

they'll say, like, oh, well,
what are you doing? Well, but

the other ones, you know, I only
had the best. And I needed

someone who believed in me that
way when I didn't believe in

myself. So that's been super
helpful.

Right? So I love I love that you
talk about how important it is

to have the right people in your
circle supporting you, because

there definitely are a lot of
people out there that you know,

you will have working
relationships with and they're

not really in your corner there.
Maybe they're in their corner,

and they're not in your corner,
you know, do you do you think

there is a sort of secret to
good collaborative

relationships?

Absolutely. I think you're
testing out this, I've done

research on you. I think, you
know, I think the thing with

collaborative relationships, it
always has to be a win win. But

more important than that, I
think there has to be a personal

connection before it can be that
way. You know, so often, I'm

sure all of you get all these,
you know, inquiries on LinkedIn,

and Facebook and Instagram
saying that they want you to

look at their business, this
just doesn't work. We need to

find a commonality between us,
right, a core value that we

believe in each other, and we
really care about each other and

someone that I'm comfortable
introducing to my best clients,

there has to be someone that in
my heart I trust, I think that's

key. And you don't have to get
along with everybody and you

never need to. But I will say
one of the things that I I've

found to be the most meaningful
and building relationships is to

be able to be comfortable
walking away fast if it's not a

good fit. Because if you allow
negativity in your life, and I

call negative terms, one
negative one will completely

derail your life in your career,
just like that, you need to be

so good about saying no, I can't
have that person in my life. And

so that you can welcome really
good people. But it's not about

having so many people. So like,
you know, I have the largest

business, we chat on social
media, we average 100 and 100

million impressions per week on
our Twitch chat that lasts about

an hour. And, you know, I think
the core group of us is probably

about 50. You know, we don't
need to be 1000s in order to

drive this much traffic. And in
real life, if you have, you

know, 1020 people and speak out
that you can tax, you're really

rich, and that's enough. So it's
less about numbers is more about

value. But more importantly,
it's about being proactive in

terms of reaching out to them,
when you don't need someone to

something and caring about them
for the things that that matter

to them. And I think that's key.
At least that's sort of been my

philosophy in life. My mom
always told me that, if

someone's good to you, you treat
them 10 times better. And that's

always been really good for me.
So those people who are good to

me, I treat them like, like they
know, I'll do anything for them.

Yeah, and I think that's,
that's, that's it?

Yeah, I think that's something
very powerful that you said that

you don't need that many. I know
that I have a friend of mine who

was a coached mind for a while.
And he was always saying you,

you don't need that many people.
I mean, we have this idea in

social media that you gotta
have, you know, hundreds of

1000s of followers and you have
to do all of these things. But

really, you only need so there's
only so much capacity, there's

only so much people can handle
and and you know, if you if you

want to grow your business,
obviously you can handle more

and more people. Right. But you
know, there there are a lot of

sacrifices that come along with
that as well. choices, right? So

I think that's very powerful.
What you said that you serve,

finding the right people, and
sometimes that takes time, you

don't know it's just like
dating, you don't know. When you

first you know, go out with
somebody you first meet them if

they're going to be somebody
that you're going to really

resonate with and bond with. And
think about all the people that

you've met through the years how
many are still good friends, you

know, those are people who've
invested in their relationship.

I there's something that's very
interesting to me about on this

podcast, and my own experiences
with people who offer offer to

collaborate with me, I find that
white men are much more willing

to reach out cold, and invite
themselves on my podcast or, or

talk with me about collaborating
or coming on my podcast. And I

find a lot of times I often have
to chase women, and different

different kinds of women that I
want to have on this show. And I

think that it has a lot to do
with this sort of fear of

visibility. And whereas, you
know, a lot of the men, you

know, they're looking at it as a
business, I got so many of these

things, I gotta check off my
list, and I'm gonna go and get

the word out there. And it's
been one of the challenges of

this podcast that I am I'm when
it comes to women, particularly

women of color, diverse
population. I'm often you know,

making several several, you
know, overtures to try to get

people on the podcast. And I
will tell you people, yeah,

good, good, good. And I think
some of it is, unfortunately,

some of my networks have been
really terrific. You know, I've

met some women who, you know,
really great at referring people

to me and men, some men too, as
well. And it's not that I don't

like men and want to have it.
But this is a wealthy woman

lawyer podcast. So I don't want
it to be all men, every week on

the show. And so do you have you
I know you run a podcast, and

you have a team who's helping
you source those guests for your

podcast? But have you noticed a
difference in in men and women

as far as who's stepping up? I
know, you have a much bigger

audience than I do. So that
means configure into it as well.

But

well, I love this question to
the media, because I was just

talking to my publishers about
the same thing. You know, I 100%

agree with what you said. I
think men by nature tend to a

lot more men have business
leaders have publicists? That's

one thing. The other thing is
they tend to, they tend to be

more comfortable doing media,
right. I think, you know, when I

first started in media, I don't,
I didn't feel like I actually

earned the right to do media for
me for a long time. I felt like

you know, maybe it wasn't good
enough. I didn't have enough

credibility, yet. I didn't feel
like I earned a place. But

that's starting to change. I
will say I agree with you is so

hard to find. A woman of color,
especially to be on show I was

trying to you know, last month
was Asian American Pacific

Islander. I was trying to find
Asian women leaders and men

leaders on the show. And I was
humming promises. This is so

hard. And I'm an Asian host, I
can't believe this. Is that hard

to find someone to be on the
show with? I can't believe they

don't want to be on the show.
But I think it's you know, I'm

hoping that'll start to change
as more of us talk about the

importance of building brands
about social media. I think that

next generation, I think our
millennials, and and Gen Z, I

think they're doing a much
better job of, you know, now

with tick tock and Instagram and
whatnot, of knowing that they

have a voice. But I agree, I
think it's sort of that, that

that transition, we got to get
more comfortable talking and

promoting ourselves. And just
because we talk about ourselves,

doesn't degrade what we build.
And it doesn't mean that we're

not women. And we're not
mothers, and we're not

caregiving are not you know,
sensitive, all that stuff is

still just as relevant. And I
would say this is introverts and

women, let me just tell you, you
are like a natural super social

media powerhouse. You just don't
even know, introverts are like,

the most powerful people on
social media, let me just tell

you, because for much of our
lives, we were looking and

watching and not talking. So we
learned how other people reacted

to us. And we're so sensitive
about it that we end up creating

very good social media brands.
You know, I think our first

80,000 followers was hard. I
remember, but then it got to

250,000. Now over 300 1000s They
sound like big numbers. And they

are like we said you only need
that core 50. And then it'll

just organically grow.

Right? Right. Right. Has Have
you noticed? Do you ever feel

like you need to be more careful
on social media? When you're

talking on social media, the
larger your audience has gotten?

Do you? Or do you think more
intently about what you're

putting out there? As opposed to
when you first started?

Oh, absolutely. I think it's
never really changed. You know?

I, you know, in the financial
industry, as well as I'm sure in

the legal industry, we're under
such compliance scrutiny of what

we can and cannot say. And you
know, that's that's the key.

That's always been the thing. I
think with our financial

industry, why I don't have as
much competition in the

financial space on social media
is because people are just too

scared of me. We're seeing
something wrong. And it's true.

I mean, on social media, you
know, there's a lot of trolls

out there who want to crush you.
I mean, I shared this really

simple tweet, I think just a
couple of weeks ago, it actually

surprised me, it was like, you
know, had interviewed a couple

of different people. One of the
tweets was saying, like, you

know, now COVID, is now I guess,
the fourth most common of death

for children under the age of
70. And I was like, shocked by

this. So I shared it on Twitter,
like, I'm actually shocked by

this, as a parent, I couldn't, I
can't believe this is actually

true. People were crushing me
saying that, I was like, you

know, a COVID monger all the
stuff, I was like, wow, that was

a lot. So of course, I deleted
the tweet. But I think the thing

is, it is so polarizing right
now. Because, of course, if

you're going to be on social
media, you gotta be very mindful

that there's a lot of crazy
people who want to take you down

for any little reason, right.
And if you're on a podcast,

you're going to do that. People
are just some people that are

really angry. But the good news
is, if you choose to go, the

high road, and you choose to
raise kindness is just sort of

my messaging, you will naturally
attract 10 times more people

that are your people. So it
shouldn't keep you from building

a brand. Because if you don't
build a brand, someone else's

brand will define you. And that
may not be to your benefit. So

one day, when you're not able to
or if you're on vacation, you're

not bringing in new clients,
your your practice will start to

get smaller, and it can't be
that way. So you're gonna have

to build it so that even when
you're not working, they're

still not out there trying to
bring a new business for you.

And that is key. That's the way
to build a really sustainable

practice, not only from a
business standpoint, but we'll

help you feel better about what
you do for people. And your

mental. So your mental game,
when you build your business is

critical.

Right, right. Absolutely. And I
think that's where a good

support network comes into. So
you can bounce things off them

and go, Oh, was it me? Or did
this just happen? Right. And I

do, I do know, from a marketing
and messaging standpoint, I've

always felt that the more the
more attractive you are, and I

mean, attractive and attracting
your right people, the more

you're going to repel some
people, because you're going to

have a very strong point of
view. And that point of view is

going to be highly attractive,
but it's also going to repel.

And so usually when I'm looking
at something that's, you know,

I'm, I don't I strive not to be
particularly controversial, but

I have, you know, I'm also very
much myself, and I have some

controversial, you know,
opinions about things. But I

also just, I believe that there
are enough people out there,

when I, when I'm discussing my
point of view, that there are

people who need to know that
they're supportive, that align

with that point of view. And so
I do it for them, right. And

then I don't worry so much about
people, because people who don't

like me, are going to be my
clients anyway. So we've just,

you know, just establish that we
don't waste we have to waste any

time. One of the things that you
said, Now, you know, you are in

the wealth industry, and it's
exactly I, I've, I've reached

out to different people in the
wealth industry before and said,

I'd love to have you on my show,
because the podcast is well

people, women lawyer. But in the
financial industry, I've gotten

a lot of nose because I've got
people who've said, Well, I'm

scared, you know, I can't do
that, because we're not allowed

to talk about now, you and I,
today, if people were signing up

for this, because they think we
were gonna, they were gonna give

a lot of financial advice today,
they'll probably be

disappointed. But I know that
you there are certain

restrictions on what you can
say, because obviously, you

could say something just off the
hat, you know, off the cuff and

somebody would run out and do
it. And then, you know, come

back and bite you hold you
accountable. Well, when the son

said that, so I went and
invested in this thing, right?

What would you say though? Is
there anything that you could

say to the women law firm
owners, one of the things that I

believe in building wealth is
that they, they start with

building their wealth generating
law firm, and that wealth

generating business is going to
be the thing that's then going

to allow them to make the
investments and other things

that they need to be able to
it's the foundational piece,

like any businesses, like your
first business that you came up

with where you were moving
audiences from studio to studio

and managing audiences. That was
a key foundation to you building

wealth and going on to the next
thing. What what kinds of sort

of if we were to leave somebody
with some thoughts on the state

of the economy now, and our
wealth, what would you what

would you be able to say that
wouldn't be out of line for you

to say?

Sure, sure. No, I'm happy to
share. I think, you know, when

we're as business owners, we are
really good at doing what we do.

Right? We are great at servicing
our clients. We're going caring

for our clients, and what that
not All of us wants to do the

bookkeeping and the payroll and
whatnot. So we know our

limitations. And I think that's
a really powerful skill, you

need to know what you're not
good at. And I would say that,

you know, getting I credit, one
of my most early relationships,

I was in my early 20s, just
starting off, and I met an

accountant. And the accountant
has been now my accounting, like

forever, right. And he, I met
him when I was just starting off

not making that much money. And
he's helped me through the

years. And I think with a good
financial advisor, you want to

do that, because you need to
build focus on your practice,

you need to focus on marketing,
and you need to have somebody

who cares and works just as hard
as you do to help you manage

your money. Should you be
managing your money, should you

be investing right now?
Absolutely. So there's so many

great opportunities right now.
So as you've gone through the

pandemic, you know, we've been
making changes to different

portfolios, I think one thing
that we've been, we're very

successful at, for our clients,
you know, most people don't know

when to sell. And one thing that
we're really good when we build,

we do customize portfolios for
our clients. And we know when to

sell when to take profit, and
when to rebalance, and when to

add. And so right now, for our
clients we're holding, many of

our clients are holding larger
amounts of cash currently,

because as you know, like just
with inflation being so high

real estate market being more
challenging, and of course, many

of the stock indices have
already touched bear market

levels, there's good
opportunities if your time

horizon is long. So as a you
know, business owner of any

gender, any practice, I would
say, you owe it to yourself to

make sure that you are saving in
your retirement account, every

single time you get paid. That's
key, that cannot be a

negotiable, whether it be a SEP
IRA or a one person 401k, or a

simple 401k, or traditional
401k, you should be doing that.

And you should also be doing
your Roth IRA or traditional

IRA. Now, many of you don't
qualify to go directly to the

Roth IRA. But then you should
know that as of right now, the

last rule says that you're able
to do a back door. So you should

actually be looking at these
opportunities and not letting

them pass. Because if there's
one thing I've learned, as a

financial advisor for 20,
something years is that the most

successful start young, right?
My oldest son, my oldest child

is 13 years old. And now he's
work. He's he's got work that

he's doing. And he's saving into
his Roth IRA. He also has his

credit card that I set up for
him. And these are things that

we need to be sharing, not only
for ourselves, but they're good

for our clients, and also good
for the next generation. So if

you don't we're not in most of
us are not in the work of

nonprofit, meaning that we run
nonprofits, not that we don't

serve as nonprofit clients,
because I do, I'm sure you do.

But we need to get thinking that
part of our job is also making

and building wealth, right for
ourselves. But it's not just

building wealth was also
building smart. Well, that is

tax shelter, that has continuous
growth, that, you know, reaps

the benefits of dividends and
compound interest all these

things. And you can only do that
if you know that the advice that

you're getting, you don't have
to second guess all the time, so

you can just focus on being
brilliant, right? And then

making sure that that that money
is invested properly. So

absolutely. Like I would love to
share, like what to invest in on

a public forum course I won't,
because I know not to. But at

any point, if you want to just
you know, talk shop, or you want

a second opinion, we I'm doing
like pro bono, corporate

speaking all day long right now.
So if your company wants us to

come in and talk, we're doing
that right now, as long as it's

virtual, happy to do it. So
we're doing that for like NBC

we're doing for employees, the
LA Times and tensile football is

big company. So, you know,
there's interest, definitely

reach out.

We Well, I think I think that's
a good note to end on. Because

I'd love for you to share how
people can connect with you on

social media or in any other way
that you want, or how they can

find out more information on
working with you. If you do

that. That would be great. And
we'll be sure to include that in

the show notes as well.

I love it. Thank you Divina.
Well, you know, I think one

thing to keep in mind is I've
been a financial advisor and my

team are very seasoned. So
what's good about that is we're

never going to pressure you to
be a client. If you want to be a

client, we're easy to find you
just Google Winnie son, I pop up

everywhere, wherever you are,
I'm not. And you know, you're

always welcome to kick the tires
and get to know us I actually

welcome that. I always tell
people, you know, just kind of

get to know us talk and see if
it's a good fit. You know, even

if it's a year or five years or
so gonna be here. You don't have

to make that decision today. And
that's key. I think you want to

quality relationships, just like
I'm sure you know, those who are

looking for an attorney or
lawyer looking for someone that

they they can trust and build
that friendship with long term.

And I would just, you know, kept
that same mindset when you reach

out to us or somebody else,
because we're in it for the long

run, and yeah, so we're really
easy to find. But if we can add

value to your employees to a
company that you work with,

that's actually what we love to
do we we do, do we want to try

to earn that business before you
decide to do business with us?

Right, right. And the time is
probably right now with all that

is going on in the economy. If
there's a time to seek out

advice, this would be a great
time to do it, I would imagine,

because there are so many
questions about what's going on

and getting other people who you
know that that's their

wheelhouse getting their
thoughts and opinions would

probably be very helpful.

So what do you thank you so much
for being here today? I've

enjoyed it immensely. And I'm so
glad we were finally able to

connect and have you on wealthy
woman lawyer podcast.

Well, thank you. So it's an
honor and thank you so much for

being patient with me. I love
the experience. And I'm such a

huge fan of you. So thank you.
Thank you for this time. Thank

you